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Post subject: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:06 am
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First post, so here goes...

I recently bought (second hand) a 62 American Vintage RI Jazz Bass - stack knob, Lake Placid Blue, tweed case (with various bits and bobs - covers, thumb rest etc).

The first thing to say is it's just a fabulous bass and I feel incredibly lucky to own it - the look, feel and sound of the bass is superb. It's also in fabulous condition.

I also have a 65 Jazz and a 73 Jazz and (and this pains me to say it!) the RI bass feels better than those basses, not to mention that it also offers a completely different sound/tone to the others.

I'm keen to try and understand the year of manufacture but when I've submitted the serial number into various websites it throws up a blank. A clue (or is it?!) may be found on the underside of the scratchplate, which has 07/10/2000 written on it. Am I to assume that this may be the date of finish (or manufacture)? If so, as this is an American made instrument, am I to assume that the date is 10th July 2000? (us Brits would read the date as 7th October 2000 - never understood why we differ on that!).

I'm so impressed with the 62 Jazz that I'm considering a 62 P-bass (RI) so would be keen to hear any thoughts on American Vintage RI basses in general and if any particular years were better than others? Anything to look out for etc?

Really hoping that you can help...


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:54 pm
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Great first post Plonk, and welcome to the Fender Lounge. Try this if you haven't already: http://www.fender.com/support/articles/?section=articles&category=product-dating

Or send an email to consumerrelations@fender.com

The '63 re-issue is getting rave reviews and some think it even better than last year's '62.
I'm a lefty so I can't have these wonderful basses unless I pay many large $$$$ for Fender Custom Shop.

I agree with you on the fabulously high quality coming out the Corona factory. I have a 2012 American Standard Jazz that is hands down the highest quality Fender I have ever played. Far better than anything during the CBS years.

Be sure to stick around and have some fun. :)

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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:25 pm
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Hi linnin... thanks for the warm welcome, much appreciated!

And thanks for the advice - it looks like the best way to date the bass is to remove the neck, which I think I'll leave for the moment (or at least get someone who knows what they're doing to do it!).

The 62 Jazz RI is an instrument that I just can't put down. It's got a set of Thomastik flats on at the moment and sounds warm and buttery but with a hint of growl to it - if that makes sense?!

And it looks vaguely similar (with one eye shut and from a distance) to Herbie Flowers' famous blue 59 Jazz Bass, which can't be bad.

I'll check out the 63 RI P-bass and see how it feels/sounds.


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:53 pm
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The Vintage Reissue serials are not indexed in any online site including Fenders. Send an email with your serial to the email link Linnin posted and you'll get a reasonably rapid response on it. Just request all the data they have on that serial. Sometimes they can say what city or dealer it was initially shipped to.

Haven't played the 63 Reissue P-Bass, but the 62 RI P-Bass is one of the best reissues ever, while now discontinued some excellent like new examples are in the market plus there are some new old stock ones in inventory at dealers in the USA.

The '62 Jazz you have is another excellent reissue. Welcome and enjoy your Fender Basses!


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:16 am
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Thanks Brother Dave, much appreciated.

I've followed linnin's advice and have sent an email to Fender - will let you know how I get on.

On a (slightly) related note, what's your take on the Road Worn series - specifically the P-bass? Do you know what p/ups were fitted?

I've got the opportunity to get a Road Worn for decent money in the UK (I've played it on a number of occasions and it sounds/feels really good). Still keen to try out a '62 RI (there's an Olympic White one over here that I've got my eye on) but would be keen to hear your thoughts on the RW series.


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:08 pm
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If you are speaking of the 50's Roadworn P-Bass that is one of the most well received of all Mexican made Fenders of all time. It comes with a pickup specified as the Fender Vintage Split Single-Coil Precision Bass. In the USA it lists for one penny shy of $1400 with a street price new of about $1000.

This instrument has a manually distressed nitro cellulose lacquer finish like that used during the pre-CBS era (pre 1964.)

For $400 less retail, the Classic Series 50's Precision Bass is the exact same instrument but with a brand new looking poly paint body finish that isn't aged at all so it looks brand new. Same wood, neck, electronics, pickguard and same everything else except the body finish. USA street price is $750 or around that.

If I wanted a new P-Bass to play stock I'd go with the Fiesta Red Classic Series 50's P-Bass myself. If the nitro version was available non-Road Worn I'd maybe go for that. The manual distressing treatment is labor intensive and it really runs the price up. I'm not a fan of distressing treatments on a new instrument personally but some people really like it.

The Vintage Split Single-Coil Precision Bass pickup used in both the Road Worn and the Classic 50's P-Bass is a very accurate recreation of an early 2nd generation P-Bass pickup. It heavily emphasizes the fundamental tone which was typical of a P-Bass up till about 1960.

The 1962 American Reissue P-Bass used a different pickup which is much brighter sounding and still available individually as the Fender Original Precision Bass Pickup. To compensate for all the upper mids the 62 RI comes with a heavier 0.1uF tone capacitor instead of the usual 0.05uF you'll find in most split coil passive P-Basses.

I have no plans to buy another bass as I'm all set, but if I did need a gigging P-Bass I'd buy the Classic Series 50's P-Bass in Fiesta Red. As for mods, maybe I'd eventually put in a Fender Original Precision Bass Pickup and I'd change the stock tone cap from the modern pea sized 0.05uF ceramic disc to either a vintage 50V 0.05uF ceramic disc or a Sprague Vitamin-Q or equivalent paper in oil type. I like a REALLY bright tone and that would give me the tone I like best. But like I said, I'm all set for now.

While the ROAD WORN 50's P-Bass is one of the best received Fender Mexican made basses ever, I think the two best values for the dollar right now in a Fender MIM bass for gigging actually are the Classic Series 50's P-Bass and the active P-Bass Special.

Not much is ever said about the P-Bass Special on the forum, but it is a really good value in an active P/J bass. The only thing about it I'm personally not real crazy about is the stock color offerings and how they look with the stock gold pickguard.

I have seen a Fender Special Run version of the P-Bass Special in Sea Foam Green with a white guard plus a block inlaid neck that looked spectacular and really made my eyes go wide open and my pupils dilate. While I'm not exactly a block inlaid neck fan, on this particular FSR bass it worked for a totally awesome looking bass. I've seen exactly two of these FSR versions of the P-Bass Special for sale. They are really scarce but I think it would be worthwhile to seek one out if looking for a unique but affordable Fender active P/J. Just an amazing looking bass!

Image

WOW!


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:43 pm
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Wow indeed. And thanks (again) for the info!

The Sea Foam Green is such a lovely colour, but not sure about the block inlay neck on that particular bass (block inlays look really nice on the late 60s/early 70s Jazz bases but I've not really taken to them on a P-bass).

One of the nicest basses I have is a MIM model - bought it in the States in '98 for a steal at the time. It's one of those late 90s Precision Specials (essentially a P-bass with a Jazz p/up added in the bridge position). Anodised pickguard and a really nice maple neck - bigger than a Jazz neck but not as chunky as the 70s P-bass necks or as wide as the 60s models. Never really seen that many in the UK and I've been asked if it was a custom job over the years, such is their scarcity. Not sure what p/ups are in it (originals) but they sound really good together: like a Jazz bass but with a bit more 'trouser flapping' going on, if you get my drift?

Your comments regarding the Road Worn P-bass don't surprise me, as the one that I've tried sounded lovely - a very warm and controlled sound. I quite like instruments that look worn in but the relic finish did seem a little on the contrived side - a bit too 'perfect' (where's the buckle rash and dings?!). That said, it's a minor quibble for what is a lovely sounding instrument.

Based on my '62 AVRI Jazz experience I had been keen to add a similar P-bass but the RW P-bass may be the one, especially at the good price it's going for.


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:52 pm
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Received a really helpful email response today from Fender re. the '62 RI Jazz Bass.

The bass was produced in March 1999 (so not sure what the penciled date on the underside of the pickguard relates to - the date the owner purchased it maybe?).

It was originally dispatched to the European Distribution Centre but after that they don't know where it ended up!

Fender provided a full breakdown of the instrument spec also, which was interesting.

Thanks for your help on this (and thanks Fender).

On a completely unrelated matter... I've seen a '68 sunburst finish P-bass that has some fairly heavy wear attached to the body. I've noticed white primer on the body where the finish has worn - is this primer correct for a sunburst instrument?


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:13 pm
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Plonk wrote:
Received a really helpful email response today from Fender re. the '62 RI Jazz Bass.

The bass was produced in March 1999 (so not sure what the penciled date on the underside of the pickguard relates to - the date the owner purchased it maybe?).

It was originally dispatched to the European Distribution Centre but after that they don't know where it ended up!

Fender provided a full breakdown of the instrument spec also, which was interesting.

Thanks for your help on this (and thanks Fender).

On a completely unrelated matter... I've seen a '68 sunburst finish P-bass that has some fairly heavy wear attached to the body. I've noticed white primer on the body where the finish has worn - is this primer correct for a sunburst instrument?


The white is the Fullerplast primer sealer coat and pretty sure it is correct for 68.
That stuff is tougher to remove than any paint.


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:42 pm
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I have the Roadworn and the Classic 50's and I agree that they should be deemed the best MIM basses ever. As for the price the Classic is a great deal and the sound of it is pretty much the same as the Roadworn. If anything I would say that the nitro finish on the Roadworn is a big plus just because it's nitro- forget the relic looks. The Nitro may give it just a tad more sustain and a tad more honk-- BUT I use both for gigs and they sound as good (if not better) as my USA basses. I have replaced the pickups however with my favorite brand and I'm glad I did because it took the basses up another level.

I played a 62 reissue Jazz quite some time ago and I remember that I liked it a lot, It was an 82 I beleive. I think that was the first year. Right BD?


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:10 pm
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Plonk, I have a couple vintage basses, and I have a couple American reissues. My primary bass is an AV57P. My backup has just changed from a 50th Anniversary Jazz, to a FCS 60J Reissue. As much as it pains me, I have to concede these reissues are really nice instruments, and it takes some wear and tear off my older ones. But there is something very special about pulling out an old vintage bass and giving it a go round. Sounds that will never, ever, be reproduced, period.

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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:01 am
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Thanks to all for the help/input/advice.

I weighed up the options, tried the basses and finally opted for a '62 reissue P-bass in Olympic White which I purchased today. It looks, plays and sounds incredible and it was a bit of a steal as over here in the UK the stores are pretty much out of the '62 RIs and are stocking/driving the '63s instead, so the price was a good one (for the UK anyway).

One query I have is that the p/up poles protrude from the plastic housing rather than sit flush - I have a '68 P-bass and a '74 P-bass and both of these have the poles sitting flush within the p/up housing.

It's certainly not something that affects how it plays (or sounds?!) but I'm curious to know whether this is something that was a feature of early 60s basses or more a modern deviation from the original.

Again, I have to say it sounds wonderful and I'm chuffed to bits with it.

Thanks again for the previous advice/info and look forward to any further words of wisdom from your good selves..


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:31 pm
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I am out of pocket with no references, but in 1957 the A poles were elevated above the other six, but I can't tell you when that ended. I can say all were level in 1963. I am sure you will get a definitive answer from someone soon.

I guess I should ask, are you saying all poles are raised, or just two?

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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:14 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
I have the Roadworn and the Classic 50's and I agree that they should be deemed the best MIM basses ever. As for the price the Classic is a great deal and the sound of it is pretty much the same as the Roadworn. If anything I would say that the nitro finish on the Roadworn is a big plus just because it's nitro- forget the relic looks. The Nitro may give it just a tad more sustain and a tad more honk-- BUT I use both for gigs and they sound as good (if not better) as my USA basses. I have replaced the pickups however with my favorite brand and I'm glad I did because it took the basses up another level.

I played a 62 reissue Jazz quite some time ago and I remember that I liked it a lot, It was an 82 I beleive. I think that was the first year. Right BD?


That would have been what is called a FULLERTON REISSUE and 82 would be around right. I can not afford one of those now. Should have bought one back then. Super collectible and for sure that series was the best CBS era basses, odd that they came last isn't it?


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Post subject: Re: American Vintage RI Basses
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:01 pm
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Plonk wrote:
... One query I have is that the p/up poles protrude from the plastic housing rather than sit flush - I have a '68 P-bass and a '74 P-bass and both of these have the poles sitting flush within the p/up housing.

It's certainly not something that affects how it plays (or sounds?!) but I'm curious to know whether this is something that was a feature of early 60s basses or more a modern deviation from the original.

Again, I have to say it sounds wonderful and I'm chuffed to bits with it.

Thanks again for the previous advice/info and look forward to any further words of wisdom from your good selves..


The 62 RI P-Bass uses the Fender Original Precision Bass pickup. It looks like this.

Image

The Alnico V magnets are sand cast, meaning they aren't machine made so there will be minor size variations. They are polished to size and to be just about FLUSH with each other just above the pickup cover. They are finished slightly over-length but all are equal in length so they don't have the raised "A" pole. So far as I know this is the only Fender like that. No Seymour Duncan or Lindy Fralin pickup has poles like it which is part of the overall uniqueness. The poles have slightly more mass, which helps improve output level a tad. The extra mass helps make the pickup louder. You can look at all the Fralin, SD and other Fender designs and it is a unique.


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