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Post subject: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:40 pm
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Hi

I hope it's OK to post a question about Fender bass strings in this forum, although the Fender strings are not being used on a Fender bass. I am mainly a guitarist who just bought myself a used bass guitar (Ibanez RB850 - 1984 MIJ). I wanted to try some flat wound strings, and bought some Fender stainless steel strings I found in a shop. They model is 9050ML, with gauges .050 .065 .085 .100

The guy who sold me the bass does not remember what gauges are currently on it. I just searched the Internet to check what people were saying about the strings, and found one thread where several people worried about their bass neck with these strings on. They claim the tension is so much higher than other string types. So I wouldn't want to put strings on that could hurt the bass. Are these people just being paranoid? I can't find tension charts/guides on Fender strings, but D'Addario's tension charts show only slightly higher tension for flat wounds compared to round wounds - and lower tension on steel strings compared to nickelplated strings. And the gauges on the 9050ML seem only slightly higher than the 45-100 or 45-105 that seem to be standard.

So, is there any reason to worry about putting on these strings? Perhaps it's just the material that is more rigid than other types, so they feel stiffer, and therefore people assume the tension is higher? Anybody know?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:00 pm
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I have used those on an Ibanez GSR200 and there isn't much difference at all or in any way between those and the GHS M3050 45-105 flats that I normally use. The Ibanez neck and truss system are some of the strongest in the industry. If you wish to use a good set of flats, try the GHS M3050. They will impress you - especially with the controls that you have on your bass. They will not streess the neck and will give you depth that some other flats can't match. Let us know how things go.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:57 pm
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Thanks for your help! I have been busy this day, and won't get a chance to try it before tomorrow. But thanks again! :)


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:02 pm
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There are flats with far higher tension. You should be fine. I think you'll be surprised how they sound too.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:16 pm
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WOW! That was a gorgeous tone! But much harder to play. I have only played regular guitar before I got this bass a few days ago. Bass guitar requires so much more finger strength. It probably also has to do with the fact that the strings I had on it before were taperwound. Therefore they were much lower over the bridge. So when I changed to the non taperwound Fender 9050ML, with much higher tension, the action got very high. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and make adjustments to the bridge height as well. But first I'll look for some lower tension flat wounds. I have read that LaBella 760FL might be a good option.

I'm not so good at describing bass tones, cause I'm new to it, but I'm looking for something deep, with a strong fundamental but also with a good kick. I think maybe bass players call it "thump"? Something that a hip-hop, reggae or perhaps R'n'B producer would have liked. I'm not going to slap a lot.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:52 pm
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Those Fender strings will mellow in a few weeks to a month. The instrument probably needs a setup and will be easier to play after properly setup. Follow the Gary Willis online pictorial setup guide and get a better setup: http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html

If you are worried about high tension than Labella 760FL's are probably not going to ease your mind much.

GHS 3025 or 3050M Precision Flatwounds are lower tension than the Labella 760FL's. The Thomastik-Infeld JF344 Jazz Flats are probably the lowest tension strings of any type and about the most expensive too.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:41 am
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Thanks. I have ordered a set of 3050M's in addition to the LaBellas now. I think the only two flatwound types in our local shop were D'Addario and Fender, so I ordered online. I'm not worried about tension anymore after the great help I have gotten from this forum. I just assume that the lower tension will be a bit easier to play on, which I need now in the beginning.... :)

I put my round- and taperwounds back on for now. I won't set it up for a new string set before I actually have a string set I'd like to use.

It seems, from descriptions on the net, the Thomastik doesn't quite have the sound I'm looking for. I also figured out that if I play around the 12th fret on the lowest strings, with my right hand close to the neck, even above the fretboard, and pick with the flesh of my fingers, I get somewhere in the ballpark where I want to be with my round taperwounds. But this way of playing might be a little limiting in the long run!

Here is a sound clip with some late night noodling with that technique: http://soundcloud.com/bautastein/bass-amplitube

Here I played with my right hand above the fretboard. Lots of sloppy playing and glitches, first take etc, just like it's supposed to be..... :D I tried to hit the Low E only with the flesh of my thumb for a soft attack and deep tone, but only managed that on the first note, and on the last few passages of the riff, because I have "guitar nails" that get in the way. It is processed with Amplitube and a limiter. Here is the raw sound signal, played straight into my sound card: http://soundcloud.com/bautastein/bass-raw

I'd like to be able to get something in that ballpark, but even lower down, at least for the deepest notes. And without having to limit my playing so much.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:23 am
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Wow... that setup guide you posted, brotherdave, was very good! I'll come back to it later!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:51 am
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Gary Willis has several other links that are very useful as well. A real public service minded guy!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:26 am
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OK - I have figured out a few things. The action on my bass was very high even with the taperwounds it came with. Since I've never had a bass before, I just thought that was normal. I have now lowered the bridge quite a bit, and as a result the sound also changed a lot. The bass got easier to play, and the nasal sort of not to punchy sound I had was replaced with a rather thick, much deeper tone. But it also got a bit wobbly, especially on the low E, I got a sort of a twisted, wobbly sound. Soooo.... I figured the pickups now had gotten too close to the strings, so I lowered the pickups a bit, and now they have gotten back much of the definition and articulation I used to have, but now there is more authority in the bass tone. I think it has gotten thicker and deeper, and I think the attack bit of the note is lowered from a too trebly one to a deeper punch that has more kick in it. As a result, I also naturally started to play much softer on the bass, so it has gotten much easier to play, and sounds better.

There is also too much neck relief, so I tried to adjust the tross rod. It worried me a bit that it offered more resistance than I expected. But I did adjust it 1/4 turn for today, I choose to take it slow. The only time I have adjusted a tross rod before was loosening it on a Telecaster, I guess I should expect more resistance when tightening a truss rod on a bass? It may also be because the bass is old, I think about 28 years (1984 model).

And yes, I know I should have started with the truss rod, and not the bridge... :)


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:45 pm
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If you put pressure on the neck as illustrated in the setup guide I posted the nut should turn much more easily. See the Foot/knee/hand illustration. It will eventually get maxed out so don't force it or you will strip the nut.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:46 pm
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Thanks for your help. I did use that technique except at the first 1/4 turn. At the first turn I figured it would be enough to just loosen the strings. I have now adjusted it a few times, and the neck is responding a little bit, but sometimes it seems to go back a little over night. I feel uncomfortable doing it because I have to put more leverage than I'd like before it turns. When it gets maxed out, does it stop turning abruptly, or does it just give more and more resistance? In other words: If it does turn, does that mean it's not maxed out yet?

The relief is really quite OK now. Using the measurement technique in Fender's manuals, it's about twice as much relief as they recommend. Using Ibanez' manuals, it is in the upper range of what they recommend. They say 0.3-0.5mm, it's about 0.5-0.6mm. (It is an Ibanez). The page you linked to says I should lower the strings and see where there is buzz. There is now some very slight buzz (not noticeable through amp) above the 12th fret, but absolutely no buzz below it. This indicates that there is slightly too much relief, but the action is low and the sound superb, so perhaps I should just let it be.

I have also heard that when a neck has had a bow for a long time, the wood can get "used" to the bow, and then luthiers put pressure on the neck for some time to let it get used to a straighter bow. Maybe I can just let it be detuned when I'm not playing, to give the truss rod a little help, and see if it straightens more over time.


Last edited by Bautastein on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:59 pm
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OK - I have searched a little around, and seen what sort of things can happen if you push the truss rod too hard. I won't touch that truss rod again. If I try some flat wound strings and find that I want them, and that it requires further adjustments, I'll get a pro to look at it. I'm not too sure I'll even want flatwounds. After the pickups got closer to the strings, I have gotten much the tone I like from the roundwounds.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:33 pm
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Just because pickup height adjustment is the last part of the setup doesn't mean it doesn't have a big impact on tone. In fact of all adjustments made during setup this is the only one that actually impacts the electronic tone much at all.

Pickup poles too close to the strings causes the magnetic force of the pickup to deaden the free vibration of the strings and can also result in bizarre oscillating tones that sound like the tone is doing a phase shift. Having the poles too far away will make the signal level drop, especially in the lows and upper mids, leaving you with a tone that sounds hollow.

A good starting point for me is to take two USA 5 cent coins, called nickles, and set the pickup height to a spacing to approximately the thickness two stacked nickles initially. Never does this get them too close. I make fine adjustments from there and usually that is raising the pickup a tad to get it closer to the strings but sometimes one side or the other seems to need more elevation than the other.

What I do to balance the pickup height for optimum string to string balance is to directly input the instrument to a mixer with a large sensitive VU meter and balance the output of the pickup for each string based on the measured signal strength on the meter. Set the mixer & preamp EQ totally flat and take any compression out of the chain. Make adjustments until you get very little variance in output level on the VU meter from string to string. Once you start getting the pickup too close to the string you'll hear sustain starting to suffer from the magnetic pull on the string. Get too far away and you can hear the the tonal components eroding and also see the level start to drop. The sweet spot is there but sometimes it takes a while to find it and rarely will the pickup be exactly level due to the neck radius and variances in each string's height. The split coil P-Bass pickups are easiest to set for string to string balance since the pickup height can be adjusted for each string. Often Jazz pickups require a compromise, but the split P-Bass can be set with "Precision."


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bass strings question
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:47 am
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I run Fender Flat MLs on my 51RI with high action. Other bassists who are used to playing their super low action J basses with sloppy rounds seem to have trouble with it when they pick it up to admire it. My guitar player has a hell of a time. However, I find high action and fairly high tension is something I enjoy on Flats. Not sure why, but the bass just plays amazing that way. Put the work in to get used to it is my advice. It'll make any other bass you pick up feel like a toy.

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