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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:54 pm
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Twelvebar wrote:
They're called mineral spirits here I believe.

But yeah, you will need to do a thorough cleaning of the body after the next sand to wood, this may not be the cure, but after a couple attempts, it will need it for sure.

Varsol is just a old name of stuff that Exxon makes. It used to be in 50 gallion drums in all the corner hardware way back and you could get your gallion jug filled when there. Now its already in cans and cleans anything.They even use it to make fuel additives but all its just a Minerial Spirit name brand.

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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:00 pm
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Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera at this moment, so close up pictures are not possible.

Years ago, back in about '82, I worked with a shop in Southern California that did high gloss custom paint jobs. We used polyurethane as an undercoating/filler on bare wood. We rarely shot lacquer directly onto the wood. The poly was then block sanded and a coat of primer was shot on for solid finishes. We used nitrocellulose most of the time, although we did use acrylic lacquer on occasion. The color was shot on, immediately followed by a coat of clear. After the prescribed amount of time between coats, which varied between products we used, we would begin a build up of clear until we had enough thickness to rub and polish.

The products I'm using now are all acrylic lacquer and manufactured by Duplicolor, with the exception of the Polyurethane which is made by Minwax. I've read the labels over and over and followed all of the suggested recoat times and temperature guidelines for shooting as closely as possible.

I hope this answers all of the questions.

It seems to me that the finishes we used back then were a lot less particular than what we have now.

Anyway, it's kind of a moot point since the owner of the instrument is equally frustrated and wants their guitar back as is.

Thanks for letting me vent.

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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:42 pm
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sorry we couldn't help you in time.

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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:45 pm
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Hi again redmax61:

I know it's too late for this job, however, I'm curious to nail the cause of your problem - for the future.

Been experimenting with some leftover blue paint I just happen to have lying around. This is nitro, but I'm beginning to think the type of paint may not be the issue.

Before I go further, did your problem look anything like this?
Image

I photographed it as best I could. Does that look anything like your "wrinkling"?

Cheers - C


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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:14 pm
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Man - That looks nasty!

Hey, Redmax. I couldn't help but notice that you are located in Ol Virginny now. I am assuming that's Virginia. I imagine that the climate for shooting finishes is quite different in VA than in So CAL esp in early Spring/Winter temps that we seem to be having. I wonder if that's making a difference in what you are experiencing?

I also wonder if you can contact Duplicolor and ask if Minwax clear is a compatible product?
At least you can find out for the next customer.

Bill

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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:50 pm
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Well it looks like I'm a little late on this but for future reference, here's a few things I'm seeing that are raising a question mark.

First as others have mentioned the use of the poly base coat with a lacquer finish. I know in your one post that you said you had done this in the past, but it's been my experience that mixing different types of finishes can really be quite problematic. If you're going to do a lacquer paint job, you should use a lacquer sanding sealer...very simply you can't go wrong doing lacquer over lacquer. It's been my experience that anytime you mix lacquer with anything else...enamels, polys, etc., that quite often you can get very unpredictable results, which sounds like what happened here.

Next to that, you said you used Duplicolor. Now I don't have any problems with DC as a brand but you do have to be very careful with them because they make both lacquers -and- enamels...and their products aren't very well marked as to which are which. In fact with my recent refinish, I had gotten a small bottle of the DC "2in1" and while I was at the auto parts store I had asked the sales guy if it was lacquer or enamel...he didn't know and it wasn't marked on the packaging at all (both of us looked). In this case I had to call DC and it did turn out to be lacquer but -many- of their products are enamels. As with my statement above, mixing lacquer and enamel is always a very bad idea and can often produce unpredictable results.

On top of that, you said you had used a primer...was the primer lacquer or enamel? Primer does come either way...if you got an enamel primer and shot lacquer over it, you can count on problems!

Also, were you shooting with a spray gun or aerosol cans? Aerosol cans are notorious for causing an "orange peel" effect...particularly if the product has been sitting on a shelf for a while. The only way I've found around this is lots of wet sanding between coats until the top coat is built up enough to get it smooth.

The only other thing I can think of that would have caused this would be temperature or humidity issues. Most lacquers are fine as long as you shoot them in temperatures above 50 degrees (F) but humidity can be a real problem...were you shooting in a basement or a garage perhaps?

If you are sure that "environmental issues" weren't the cause, I would really suspect that there was a problem with the choice of paints. Either the lacquer and the poly directly or possibly an enamel slipped in there somewhere. Very seriously, while I'm not a professional by any means, I would -never- use a poly as a base coat for a lacquer. Next time try some lacquer sanding sealer instead. It serves the same purpose and you won't have compatibility issues.

Also for next time, I would strongly suggest using a scrap piece of practice wood to test the finishes for exactly this kind of problem...particularly if you're using a brand such as Duplicolor that you haven't worked with before. It's always best to do your experimenting and make your mistakes on a piece of scrap before you start working on the real thing.

Again I know I'm late getting in on this one but I hope it helps for next time.

L8r,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: GAAAH! Paint problems . . . WTFO?
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:15 pm
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Opps .... You are using the wrong lacquer paint !!! [/color]Try using Lawrence-McFadden Nitrocellulose Spraying Lacquer instead of Duplicolor paint which is a whole diffrent lacquer base all together ...

Nitrocellulose lacquer, sprayed in multiple thin coats, has long been the favorite traditional finish for fretted instruments. Lawrence-McFadden lacquer is the choice of many guitar manufacturers, for a hard, durable, easy to spray finish with a beautiful gloss. You can purchase from Stewart-McDonald web sight ... The finsih will never be right using the wrong paint !!! Trust me !!! I have a Fender Musicmaster refin and it came out perfect ....

Tom Barry Bass


redmax61 wrote:
So I've been trying to repaint a friend's Musicmaster bass. It was previously refinished. I color matched it to Ultramarine Blue Duplicolor paint. First time, I roughed it up, filled in some imperfections, shot on some Duplicolor primer, shot on some color, and before the color dried it wrinkled in a couple of spots. I sanded and reprimed the spots. They wrinkled again.

Next, I sanded it down to the poly, shot on primer, and it wrinkled again.

Just the last few days, I stripped it down to the wood, shot on new poly, shot on primer, and it wrinkled again.

I've gone through a TON of sandpaper!

Here's the thing. I used same brand, but different batches and types of primer. Each time, it wrinkled in a different spot. Adhesion promoter does nothing to help. The wrinkles aren't bad, but if I shot paint on over them (after sanding and repriming, of course), it got pretty nasty. Sanding and repriming doesn't make a difference.

What the heck am I doing wrong?

Long story short - lotta sweat, tears and frustration, and I still don't have a finished product.


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Post subject: Re: GAAAH! Paint problems . . . WTFO?
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:31 pm
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tomkbarry wrote:
Opps .... You are using the wrong lacquer paint !!! [/color]Try using Lawrence-McFadden Nitrocellulose Spraying Lacquer instead of Duplicolor paint which is a whole diffrent lacquer base all together ...

Nitrocellulose lacquer, sprayed in multiple thin coats, has long been the favorite traditional finish for fretted instruments. Lawrence-McFadden lacquer is the choice of many guitar manufacturers, for a hard, durable, easy to spray finish with a beautiful gloss. You can purchase from Stewart-McDonald web sight ... The finsih will never be right using the wrong paint !!! Trust me !!! I have a Fender Musicmaster refin and it came out perfect ....

Tom Barry Bass



Actually I doubt the use of the Duplicolor was the specific problem. DC's acrylic lacquers are in fact quite suitable for guitar finishes and I've used them myself with great success. My only gripe about DC is that they aren't real good about labeling some of their products (like the fore mentioned 2in1) which can make it easy to mix lacquers and enamels by accident. Other than that, their products have worked very well for me over the years and they are quite respectable...I've even used them on a couple of car finishes! LOL!!!

I'm not saying the McFadden stuff is bad by any means, but Duplicolor is a perfectly acceptable substitute and being able to get it at most major auto parts stores as apposed to having to order online is most convenient.


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Post subject: GAAAH! Paint problems . . . WTFO?
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:14 pm
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why wouldnt you even try that you should of tried it on a crappy bass first


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