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Post subject: GAAAH! Paint problems . . . WTFO?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:23 pm
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So I've been trying to repaint a friend's Musicmaster bass. It was previously refinished. I color matched it to Ultramarine Blue Duplicolor paint. First time, I roughed it up, filled in some imperfections, shot on some Duplicolor primer, shot on some color, and before the color dried it wrinkled in a couple of spots. I sanded and reprimed the spots. They wrinkled again.

Next, I sanded it down to the poly, shot on primer, and it wrinkled again.

Just the last few days, I stripped it down to the wood, shot on new poly, shot on primer, and it wrinkled again.

I've gone through a TON of sandpaper!

Here's the thing. I used same brand, but different batches and types of primer. Each time, it wrinkled in a different spot. Adhesion promoter does nothing to help. The wrinkles aren't bad, but if I shot paint on over them (after sanding and repriming, of course), it got pretty nasty. Sanding and repriming doesn't make a difference.

What the heck am I doing wrong?

Long story short - lotta sweat, tears and frustration, and I still don't have a finished product.

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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:37 am
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ello Admiral Redmax. Long time no see.
Could your problem be you spraying a nitrocellulose colour ontop of polyester? The nitro will to a degree burn into previous layers by chemical reaction.

You may do better by posting the question in the strat forum, lots of people doing paintjobs there.

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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:24 pm
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Oy! I feel your pain! I did a refin a LONG time ago and thought it would be easy. I learned (the hard way) to do lots of really thin coats. Other than that I can only wish you luck!


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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:33 pm
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nikininja wrote:
ello Admiral Redmax. Long time no see.
Could your problem be you spraying a nitrocellulose colour ontop of polyester? The nitro will to a degree burn into previous layers by chemical reaction.

You may do better by posting the question in the strat forum, lots of people doing paintjobs there.


The wrinkling appeared in different random spots on each attempt.

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Post subject: paint problems
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:31 pm
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sounds to me like paint runs. i worked in the automitive field painting on a line moveing 15-8 foot per minit, so i know a little about this problem. try thin layers one at a time with a cure time in betwean.


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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:15 pm
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No, it definitely wasn't paint runs. It was wrinkling or crackling.

In the case of the last attempt, it was freshly sanded poly that had cured for 72 hours like the label said. It had been wiped down and tacked. I shot primer in the cutaways first, worked my way around the sides, then hit front and back. When I looked back at the cutaways, the primer had wrinkled in two or three spots. The other two times it happened similarly, but in different spots.

The paint I'm using is acrylic laquer. I'd like to be using nitro, because I have had very good luck with shooting that over poly in the past. I haven't worked with acrylics too much.

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:10 pm
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Could it be a temperature problem. I leave my cans in a bucket of warm water for 10-15 mins before spraying. I just did a strat with acrylic and suffered all kinds of problems.

Redmax you could be better off posting this or a link to this post in the strat forum. Theres a few people in there with loads of know how. I rank as a clown to joker at best with paint.

Sod it, I'll post a link there.

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:30 pm
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Are you sure your primer is suitable for wood?


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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:18 pm
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Sounds like a compatibility or contamination issue.

1 question is your duplicolor acrylic lacquer, or is it acrylic enamel?

This is important, because if it is acrylic enamel then you have a very short window for moving from coat to coat. Like an hour (2 hours may be really pushing your luck, for a second coat,) or it will wrinkle.

Please post pictures. Including close ups of the labels of your products.

It is possible you are using stuff that should be part of a couple different finishing systems.

I don't know a lot about acrylics, but it could be one product you use has Acetone as its solvent, and the other may have an alcohol solvent. there is a lot of chance for incompatibility.

Do you really need both "the poly" and a primer? if I recall a friends acrylic job, his sealer was also his primer. Are you mixing incompatible products here, when you only need one of them? What is this poly you are talking about? Polyester sealer? if so it probably should function as your primer too. remember poly is an abbreviation for a few completely different products, so could you be more precise?

I have only ever used one stage for primer/sealing with acrylic lacquer. I think your issue is from this. For my planned acrylic based finish, I bought a polyester primer/sealer, and from that I will go right to my color coating. i don't have a seperate primer.

We need a lot more info/pictures please.

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:06 pm
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your best shot is to sand the body all the way back down to bare wood using gloves so you don't get any oils on the body then use a lacquer sanding sealer for wood furniture then a lite sanding then tact cloth it and then use a good auto primer than closely follow the directions on your paint and clear cans most acrylics must be re coated in 5-60 mins i waited 5-10 between coats when i sprayed this body using this process
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are you using reducer for the color? and activator for the clear?

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:19 pm
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It sounds like it is contaminated. Like others said I would sand it down again and the wipe it down good with varsol to clean the wood then seal it.

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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:38 am
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cvilleira wrote:
It sounds like it is contaminated. Like others said I would sand it down again and the wipe it down good with varsol to clean the wood then seal it.
I was going to suggest he wipe down with naptha.

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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:40 am
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Twelvebar wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
It sounds like it is contaminated. Like others said I would sand it down again and the wipe it down good with varsol to clean the wood then seal it.
I was going to suggest he wipe down with naptha.


I would wipe it down with one of the above products before spraying. Believe it or not just the oils from your hands touching the surface can cause the the paint to separate or crack. Use doctors gloves when handling the body.
BTW it's been a while since we've heard from you so "Hello" from the bayou! :wink:


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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:43 am
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Hi redmax: Nikininja has posted in the Strat Forum asking folks to take a look at this thread - and suddenly it's filling up nicely!

In truth, I think we need all of Twelvebar's questions answered before we can usefully go further. And clear, close, focused photos would really help. One man's orange peel is another's wrinkling. We need to be sure what we're talking about...

However, on the face of it two possibilities seem likely. Incompatibility between materials (as others have said) sounds the most likely. And the paint not working well in the ambient temperature where you are spraying is another high probability. Niki's suggestion of warming aerosols (if that's what you are using) in hottish water is good, but if the surface you are spraying onto is too cold you are in for all kinds of trouble.

More info please!

Surgeon-like cleanliness is vital too, as Hop said:

fhopkins wrote:
I would wipe it down with one of the above products before spraying. Believe it or not just the oils from your hands touching the surface can cause the the paint to separate or crack. Use doctors gloves when handling the body.
BTW it's been a while since we've heard from you so "Hello" from the bayou! :wink:


My own process is to wipe carefully all over with naphtha and then again with methylated spirits (is it called that in America? The stuff that's often colored purple?) In a different area of my life we use meths as a degreasing agent, and I believe that's well known in certain industrial processes. (Go light with meths on nitro though: it can slightly "re-activate" the surface of the paint.)

From that point on only touch the body with gloved hands.

Now. More data, please!

Cheers - C


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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:55 pm
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They're called mineral spirits here I believe.

But yeah, you will need to do a thorough cleaning of the body after the next sand to wood, this may not be the cure, but after a couple attempts, it will need it for sure.

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