It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:54 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Noise from new bass
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:01 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:32 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Las Vegas
I just bought an inexpensive bass, Luna Tattoo. I ordered it online, it plays well but I noticed a problem when I plugged it in an amp today. I get a buzz that goes away when I touch the outside of the cord plug. I doesn't change when I touch the strings just when I touch the metal part of the cord. It also go's away when I turn the tone pot all the way down. Before I send it back I thought I would ask for some opinions about possible causes. I tried different cords and guitars, its definitely from the Luna.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:56 am
Online
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14045
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
A ground is missing or defective inside bass.
Bad wiring inside.
Cheap pickups .
Poor solder.
Pictures of electronic may help.

Best is send back to the seller.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:11 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:32 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Las Vegas
Thanks I will send it back and if the next one comes with the same issue I will take it apart and send photos to see what needs replacing. I think it will be worth putting some pick ups and pots in it, I just made a recording with it and it sounds surprisingly good. Brotherdave suggested the Luna as a good, very inexpensive option and he said it would probably be a good idea to change the pickups. It will be something to play while I wait for the right Fender piece to come along and once this little noise is gone it will be very usable.
Thanks again for your diagnosis.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:41 am
Online
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14045
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
A good bass for less than $200 !!!!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:00 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:32 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Las Vegas
Well for me at the moment money is tight, I just wanted something to have some fun with. I would love to have a first class instrument. As you know really fine guitars of any type run north of 3k, nice playable instruments about 1k. Sometimes you can find a beginner mass produced piece for 300 to 400. In this case I just wanted something to noodle around with. When I ordered it I expected it would be very lacking, I just hoped it would be playable enough to have fun with , and not so bad that I couldn't enjoy it. However I took Brotherdaves recommendation to heart and gave it a shot. It turned out to be a great deal, the neck is straight as an arrow, the fret work is good, it plays on all the strings all the way up the neck with no buzzes. It claims to have Nubone nut and saddle hardware that is ok, and the thing feels an sounds pretty good. On the downside the electronics and machine heads are cheap, as Brotherdave said he changed the pups and pots. I think that if this piece had a name brand on it, it would be selling for twice or more the price. It even came perfectly intonated with a good set up (something that cant be said for many mail order guitars) and DAddario strings. Even with the slight buzzing issue, I think its was a great deal.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:02 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Eroot64 wrote:
Well for me at the moment money is tight, I just wanted something to have some fun with. I would love to have a first class instrument. As you know really fine guitars of any type run north of 3k, nice playable instruments about 1k. Sometimes you can find a beginner mass produced piece for 300 to 400. In this case I just wanted something to noodle around with. When I ordered it I expected it would be very lacking, I just hoped it would be playable enough to have fun with , and not so bad that I couldn't enjoy it. However I took Brotherdaves recommendation to heart and gave it a shot. It turned out to be a great deal, the neck is straight as an arrow, the fret work is good, it plays on all the strings all the way up the neck with no buzzes. It claims to have Nubone nut and saddle hardware that is ok, and the thing feels an sounds pretty good. On the downside the electronics and machine heads are cheap, as Brotherdave said he changed the pups and pots. I think that if this piece had a name brand on it, it would be selling for twice or more the price. It even came perfectly intonated with a good set up (something that cant be said for many mail order guitars) and DAddario strings. Even with the slight buzzing issue, I think its was a great deal.


Obviously a ground issue OR it could even an issue with your electrical system. Could be about anything. I would have had a look under the hood before returning, especially with such a good setup because you might have wanted to replace the electronics anyway and you might not get that lucky with such a good setup the second time. FREQUENTLY the bridge ground is wonky, even on way more expensive instruments. In this case it could be the other issues already pointed out or it could also be the jack or a problematic cable. Did you try it on another amp on another electrical service? I have seen people condemn instruments when actually the issue was the electrical system in the location where the issue happened. Are there fluorescent or CFL lighting in that room? I would have tried it in a different location for sure before sending it back. Luna makes good playable instruments for the money. Their ukes and acoustic models get good reviews. I do not think there is anything wrong that a copper foil shielding to ground job would not fix. Any instrument around this price point is going to have shielding issues, even with a P-Bass pickup in it. Likely not even shielding paint in the control cavity. It would probably benefit from a pickup upgrade too, but I am not sure I would jump on a new pickup until after shielding it and checking all solder joints. Shielding self adhesive copper tape and a short length of black wire would run about $6 plus shipping at basspartsresource.com. If you wanted to go ahead and do a USA wiring kit that would be about $18 for pots, cap and jack plus shipping. It is about a 2 hour job to shield it or maybe more if your first time and you'll need a soldering iron and solder too which you can get at Radio Shack. Rewiring everything and replacing the jack and pots is another 2 hours. Both are well worth it usually on an entry level instrument. Going to post some links for you in a few minutes here.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:04 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
OK now the follow up with links on how to fix this thing. I have bought FENDER JAPAN basses and have done the exact same steps that follow.

A proper shielding a bass is something lots of people get wrong one way or another. There is a good site that shows exactly how to shield a single coil Stratocaster here: http://www.artandtechnology.com.au/guitar/shielding-strat.html While a Strat is NOT a bass this site does clearly illustrate the PRINCIPLES you need to accomplish. It is the best site I have found that has pictures showing you actually HOW TO DO IT. However you have to make some changes depending on what model and type of bass you are shielding.

What you are trying to do is build a solid copper wall around everything electronic EXCEPT the front of the pickup pair and the jack hole and wire this solid wall of copper to ground.

In the illustration at the website they shield the back of the pickguard, but on the Luna Tattoo there is no pickguard. There is however a plastic control cavity cover and you will shield that instead of a pickguard from edge to edge so that when seated back on the body the copper on the control cavity cover contacts the copper foil from the cavity that overlaps just the lip where the control cavity cover sits. Poke holes in the copper for the pots to go back through and for the pickup wiring channel and for the jack. Copper foil should overlap enough of the lip of the control cavity where it will contact the foil on the back of the control cavity cover as this is super important. You will also shield the pickup cavity all the way up the sides but not above where the top of the pickup comes or it begins to show. You will solder a ground wire from a corner of the pickup cavity shielding and run this wire in the same channel with the pickup wires to the control cavity where it is soldered to the copper tape in the control cavity, or use a very short screw to secure it there. This ground wire from the pickup cavity can be very small diameter wire if the channel is small, it does not have to be any particular size, but should be stranded for flexibility and black in color to denote it is ground. Do not use solid conductor wire like bell wire as the solid wire can break when bent. You will ALSO need to run a groundwire from the copper foil in the control cavity to the ground (the back) on one of the pots. Lastly do not neglect to put one bead of solder on EVERY copper tape seam for the best possible connectivity. Pickup mounting foam provides space between any solder points on the pickup and the copper tape.

NEXT! A really cheap upgrade that can cost NOTHING! Loosen the bridge screws. Under the bridge will be a ground wire will just be laying there. Wrap the bare ends of this wire AROUND one of the bridge screws and carefully reseat all bridge screws making sure the wire stays around the screw for best contact with the bridge. You can also "TIN" the bare end of this ground wire to make it stiffer by applying a little solder to it. ONLY BARE WIRE should be wrapped around the bridge screw so you may have to strip some insulation off it, or if the wire is too short (which can happen) you can completely replace this wire entirely.

Next absolutely REPLACE the stock jack with a corresponding SWITCHCRAFT brand USA made jack. Asian jacks are NOTORIOUS for being off spec compared to USA jacks. The stock jack could actually be a big part of your problem. Replace it FOR SURE.

Now if you do ultimately decide to completely rewire it and replace the pots, cap, jack and wiring all at once then use this diagram: https://p4.zdassets.com/hc/theme_assets/549136/200076499/019-3200_02A_SISD.pdf

If you decide to replace pots you have a couple of obstacles, the Luna Tattoo uses MINI-POTS, meaning standard CTS pots will not fit the shaft holes without some drilling out of the pot shaft holes. So you will need a drill and bits. You may also have to expand the cavity it itself a tiny bit using a Dremel tool or by sanding because CTS pots are much FATTER than Asian mini-pots. If you do expansion DO NOT alter the lip where the control cavity cover seats! Also know that when you do get the CTS pots to fit that now the stock knobs likely will not fit onto CTS pots and will have to be replaced with Fender or cheaper knockoffs to fit a CTS pot. It is easier to replace MIni-Pots on a bass like this than on a bass with a metal control plate though. 250k is 250k and the reward for replacing Asian mini-pots with full sized CTS pots is not often worth the effort or cost as there may be a FEEL improvement but no actual tonal improvement. Replacing the pots would be the NEXT TO LAST thing to try if it is still humming. The last thing is a pickup swap.

To sum it up. I absolutely would do these things FIRST:
1. Copper foil shield to ground the control cavity, pickup cavity and control cavity cover.
2. Replace the stock Asian jack with a SWITCHCRAFT jack.
3. Seat the bridge ground wire around a bridge screw.
Your total cost here would be about $11 or less plus shipping.

If still too noisy replace the pots with CTS 250k pots. This should be under $13 for parts but may entail another 2 hours of labor to get them to fit. You may need to use LONG SHAFT pots such as would be used on a Les Paul.

If STILL too noisy next look at a pickup replacement. The stock pickup has ceramic magnets. Replace with Alnico Fender or Seymour Duncan vintage type pickup pair. The pickup upgrade will be the most expensive, do it last. However I just like the way Fender Alnico pickups sound. I like the Fender Original Precision Pickup myself. Super bright and loud.

I personally would also REPLACE the poly tone cap with a vintage ceramic disc one of 0.05uf to 0.10uf value depending on the brightness of the pickup you use. Axegrinderz.com is a good source for them. The current tiny reproduction ceramic discs just DO NOT have the same mojo and sound way like a poly cap. This cap should cost from $1 to $2 tops. I am not getting into a cap discussion but on a P-Bass I like a vintage ceramic disc and they are dirt cheap, so why not? Poly caps and repro ceramics lack character.

REMEMBER that no matter how far you take upgrades here that the bass is STILL going to bring you $50 to $75 on a trade. Nothing you BUY and install is going to add any value to the instrument in a sale or trade. So take baby steps until you get it quieted down and more enjoyable to play. I think it is a good looking good playing instrument for the money and the HARDWARE is remarkably sound in the price range. The real problems with it are all electronic and they are the exact same problems native on almost all passive Asian basses by any maker....even Fender.

You seem to think Luna is some sort of newcomer. They have been around a long time making acoustic instruments. Their ukes and other acoustic instruments are very well regarded.

The bridge on this instrument is very good and should NOT need changing at all. The machine heads are not as good as Schaller but appear to be a long running proven reliable Gotoh design which has been used on lots of basses like Ibanez and some of the Squier and Fender Japan models over the years. I would not worry about replacing the machine heads unless they are not holding tuning or they actually break. Wilkinson or Gotoh both make direct replacements that will drop back in without even changing the screw holes. A machine head upgrade likely would be a waste of money if the stock ones are functional.

The tuners and bridge and even the frets are NOT the weak links here. Like all Asian basses the weak link is the electronics. Take your time getting it straight and enjoy the learning experience. Once you get it quieted down it will sound as good as about any other passive bass, and I like the uniqueness of the Luna Tattoo. The frets and necks are very nice on all the examples I have seen. I could see polishing the edges of the frets a bit to add smoothness, but you can say that about any instrument except truly high end USA ones.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:55 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:32 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Las Vegas
Thanks for taking the time to provide all this info Dave it is very helpful.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Noise from new bass
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:27 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:26 pm
Posts: 2849
Location: Green Bay, WI
Eroot64 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to provide all this info Dave it is very helpful.


Brother Dave is knowledge man here. He just have tons of them. Always helpful, to anyone.

_________________
Rez(# 30916)
'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: