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Post subject: Help! MIM Deluxe Jazz V - No Output!
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:23 pm
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So, I got hosed on a second hand deal yesterday, need help.

I picked up a 2006 MIM Deluxe Jazz V, trusted the seller and got burned; no output. I know I know, please, spare me the lectures. I buy and sell on honor and handshakes a lot and there's rarely an issue, but yeah, there is the odd d-bag out there. This guy ripped me off then blocked my phone number, won't respond to emails, texts, anything. Insert four letter word here.

Here's the rundown of what's happening.

- Plugged it in first time - EXTREMELY LOW output, practically non-existent. I had a ton of gain available on the preamp I plugged into, so I goosed it 'til the bass could be heard (barely hitting -40db with preamp cranked). Any boost on the bass' on board EQ made for very distorted sound and still EXTREMELY low output coming from the bass (the distortion certainly being the bass itself, not even close to clipping anywhere else). I A/B checked with a passive jazz bass and set the input preamp gain where the functioning passive bass was peaking around -6dB (digital).

- Replaced the battery, tested the new battery to make sure it was good (9.73V), I also checked that 9V is making it to the preamp PCB and yes, it is there between the point on the PCB marked 9V and ground, so the battery clip must be good. Still, no difference.

- Removed output jack and bent pins a bit to ensure good contact, examined the jack's solder joints, look fine, good continuity everywhere. Still no different.

- Removed the control plate/preamp to examine cavity for any obvious bad solder joints or shorts, nothing seen. Moving wires around seemed to make for some transient snap crackle and pop, but never any more output from the instrument/pickups.

- Removed bridge and checked ground, moved ground wire and reset bridge ensuring good ground contact, re-installed bridge. No difference.

At this point there is virtually NO output from the bass; not even the low level distorted garbage I was getting before. If I SLAM the input gain on a preamp I can see a very faint amount of signal coming from the bass, but again, it's practically nothing, and mostly just faint sporadic noise. I should also mention that previously there was some noise coming from the pots (pops and fuzzy sounds as they were turned this way and that), but at this point I'm not even getting that.

What am I missing here? I'm really stuck as to what to do next and can't seem to find any detailed information online. I've seen some people post that their tech told their preamp is bogus, but never any technical grounds/evidence for this. If that could be the case I'd like to how know to test this.

Overall, what I'm hoping for is some help as to how to further troubleshoot this axe beyond what I've already done and perhaps if anyone can think of some things I may have missed. I have a strong background in audio and am fairly handy with electronics, however, active instruments are something I've never had to work with. My L2500 (only active instrument I've owned until recently) has always just.. worked. I would very much like to avoid having to throw any money at this bass, it really wasn't a GREAT price even if it was working.

Please help me!!

UPDATE: Still not working. I've further tested as much I can think of with a multimeter, mostly just continuity and resistance here and there. Can't figure it out. If this were a passive instrument I wouldn't have a problem but I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to this active unit. Any and all advice would be appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: Help! MIM Deluxe Jazz V - No Output!
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:45 am
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Look you need a new inboard preamp. :(


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Post subject: Re: Help! MIM Deluxe Jazz V - No Output!
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:37 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Look you need a new inboard preamp. :(


That is a distinct possiblity. I think it could possibly be Fender Part Number 0054137000.

That is the preamp used in the 4 string version anyway. To be SURE email consumerrelations@fender.com with your full model name and serial number requesting a service diagram and parts list for it by return email. Once you have that you can order the correct preamp for it from a Fender dealer or service center.

You could also opt for an aftermarket preamp instead. There have been advances since this preamp was introduced so I'd seriously consider that also. Speaking for myself I'd be very tempted to replace the stock preamp and controls with the Bartolini HR-4.5A/P because it gives you a push/pull active passive option plus it has a master volume and blend pot instead of volume/volume pots and is relatively affordable.

So this might be a golden opportunity to have a better sounding and more versatile Jazz Bass instead of a "hosing." The same setup is available without the Passive/Active option for a few dollars less, but I find having an active/passive option a huge plus. Street price on the active/passive setup runs about $150 and looks like this:

Image

Bartolini also makes a Volume/Volume setup designated as the HR-4.2 A/P which is about the same price and looks about the same. I prefer having one master volume with a blend myself, but you might like the original Volume/Volume setup better. Or you could put another Fender preamp in it if you can get one.

Sorry this happened to you and it was a pretty sucky thing he did to you. Chances are he is selling other gear also. I would post everything you know about this guy on Craigslist and see if anyone knows how to find him. Make it a warning that he sells busted gear. Then track him down. Recruit a friend to use their email or cell phone to contact him inquiring on any musical items he might have for sale. Have your friend meet him while you hide in the car and then you pop out.

I'm guessing you bought this out of the trunk of his car at McDonalds or something like that. If you had written his tag down you could track him down and sue him in small claims court. That is about your only recourse. I think I'd just take my lumps, fix it and move on. It really is an opportunity to make it more versatile if you don't mind investing $150 more in it.


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Post subject: Re: Help! MIM Deluxe Jazz V - No Output!
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:53 am
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brotherdave wrote:
[
Sorry this happened to you and it was a pretty sucky thing he did to you. Chances are he is selling other gear also. I would post everything you know about this guy on Craigslist and see if anyone knows how to find him. Make it a warning that he sells busted gear. Then track him down. Recruit a friend to use their email or cell phone to contact him inquiring on any musical items he might have for sale. Have your friend meet him while you hide in the car and then you pop out.

I'm guessing you bought this out of the trunk of his car at McDonalds or something like that. If you had written his tag down you could track him down and sue him in small claims court. That is about your only recourse. I think I'd just take my lumps, fix it and move on. It really is an opportunity to make it more versatile if you don't mind investing $150 more in it.



+1


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Post subject: Re: Help! MIM Deluxe Jazz V - No Output!
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:24 pm
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Yes, yes and yes.

If you buy enough used basses direct from owners you are going to to get burned. All I have to do is look in the mirror to see a guy it has happened to more than once. Typically what I do, instead of getting angry, I turn it into a project bass.

That is why I like Brother Dave's response so much. You have a chance to make this far superior than what you bought. Go for it! There is no upside to keeping it all original.

Based on your description, you have checked it out pretty completely, not much to add there. I also think the issue is likely in the board assembly.

Not sure what you want to accomplish, flip it or play it, and don't know your gear budget, but if you want to play it, it would be a great time to upgrade the pups, too. MIM electronics are still a little wimpy, IMO.

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


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Post subject: Re: Help! MIM Deluxe Jazz V - No Output!
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:40 am
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affprod wrote:

...if you want to play it, it would be a great time to upgrade the pups, too. MIM electronics are still a little wimpy, IMO.


Very valid point. Especially if you upgrade to a passive/active preamp then the shortcomings of the stock pickups will become clearer in passive mode than they are in active mode. The active preamp expands their range nicely masking the "wimp" factor. It is mighty hard to beat Fender USA or Seymour Duncan for the money. I would not consider this to be a candidate for custom wound pickups and would stick to mass production ones. I'd also stick to single coil pickups and stay away from Noiseless/stacked/split coil pickups not just because they cost more but mainly because to me they don't sound much like a Jazz should.

Went looking for someone selling the original Fender preamp setup to compare it's cost to the aftermarket alternatives and found that Darren Riley sells what I figure could be a Fender replacement setup for $45 which is Fender Part 0056012008, but he is presently out of stock on them. That is not for the original board for the five string post 2004 model which Fender shows as Fender Part Number 0054137000. Darren Riley may be willing to order one for you, but I can't say how long the wait would be there. I've ordered from him before and he is good to deal with, but maybe your local Fender dealer or service center is too. But at least now you know the ballpark figure for a Fender preamp setup. So if you are under budget constraints and would like to put as little into it as possible to get it working, then the Fender setup for a 2004 and up one is very reasonably priced and your local dealer's price should be in line with that price as Darren Riley is a real Fender parts dealer, he just has his parts listed online, is fairly local to me and I deal there. The Fender 0056012008 assembly which would probably work looks like this on darrenriley.com:
Image

Thought of two other aftermarket preamp candidates if you don't replace it with the 2004 up Fender board. First is the Seymour Duncan STC-3P (for passive pickups) which is cheaper but would also work. The only things I don't like about it are that it is always active like the original Fender preamp board and that since it is an older design it has a shorter battery life (-1000 hrs) than the more recent Bartolini preamp design which is good for a year of use for 8 hours a day at least. The Duncan STC-3P would be a more affordable alternative and sells for about $120. It puts the mids on their own tone control and the bass/treble controls are stacked. It also has the master volume/blend arrangement I like. The volume control is also a push/pull switch for a "SLAP" tone function on/off but again, I'd opt for an active/passive switch over a "Slap" switch.

The second preamp is a more advance Bartolini switchable passive/active that adds a midrange control and stacks the bass/treble control. It is the HR-4.6A/P and it costs a bit more than the 4.5 but essentially is the same preamp board with more refined controls. The 4.6 is for sure a more versatile, if more expensive, option.

Also should mention that the Bartolini (and also the Duncan older design) can be ran in either 9 or 18 volts. I know you only have room for one battery in the battery compartment, but if you go the Bartolini route there should be room in the control cavity for the 2nd battery. Since you only have to change it about once a year it is no big deal. A second battery adds headroom in the preamp plus lowers the noise floor. I'd suggest the 18 volt setup on the Bartolini if there is any way to do it without carving on the wood. Since battery changes are so infrequent on the Bartolini preamp, tucking one battery in the control cavity is a realistic option. You could also route the battery compartment to be wider and fabricate a new cover out of plastic yourself, but doing the routing would best be left to a woodworking pro with the right tools. I wouldn't go free-hand on this with a Dremel in a zillion years.

So you can get the original preamp which also might be Fender part number 0054137000 or replace it with the more common 0056012008 and be fine....or you can go whole hog with new pickups (figure about $150) plus an upscale Barolini preamp assembly (figure another $150.) Like Affprod said, it depends on your budget!

Let us know how this shakes out.


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