It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:25 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:02 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:54 am
Posts: 4
Hi, would appreciate some expert advice. I bought the guitar off Ebay and it's billed as

Fender jazz bass guitar Sunburst (USA model From 2000)

Here are some of the pics that came with it

Image
Image
Image
Image

The neck plate has a Serial Number on it (V135930) but doesn't have the Fender "F" logo. Neither do the tuning pegs.
There is no serial number on the headstock or neck, no country of manufacture written on it, and I've never seen the tone and volume control configuration. As yet I haven't taken it apart to see if anything is evident inside.

I know, I know, why did I buy it without checking properly but you know Ebay and how excited you get when buying a new toy.

Any pointers gratefully taken!


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:58 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: SW Florida
I am bouncing around in an airplane, as usual, and looking at this on my phone....so take my comments very lightly. If no one else responds, I will when I return.

My guess is you have an American Vintage reissue of a 60 or 61 jazz. But again, I am old and looking at a two inch screen. My point is, don't beat yourself up until you get other responses, because you may have struck gold, depending on what you paid for it. AV series are typically very nice players, and run in large, but limited editions.

Steve

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:27 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:54 am
Posts: 4
Thanks Steve

I hope your flight isn't too bumpy!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:21 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: SW Florida
Okay, home again.

I do have a couple concerns, and have stopped my investigation for the moment. Without knowing the year of manufacture, and looking at that series, I do not want to say anything affirmative or negative (seeing it on a normal screen is nice) but I do not like the headstock, big time, and have gone no further.

To ascertain the date of manufacture, you will need to pull the neck off and give me those numbers (on the neck) as well, as the AV number could be any number of years. Totally up to you if you want to get into that.

To confirm my suspicions, I pulled out a 1960 reissue made in the Fender Custom Shop. When comparing to mine, the headstock is not formed correctly and the string tree is not placed appropriately. I pulled out four other jazz basses at random, and confirmed the contour is not in keeping with the norm for jazz basses.

Until/unless we go further, I am lacking confidence in the headstock, and could not say you have the real deal.

Go to fender.com and check out the current jazz bass headstocks. Google 1960-1961 Fender Jazz Bass, click on images, and look at the vintage headstocks. You will notice that on the G side, the headstock starts to sweep away from the neck immediately. Looking at your bass, the closeup of the headstock pic, it appears to stay level, or even close in on the G when leaving the neck. Not what I wanted to see.

Still, we can look further if you wish. I have been wrong more than once. And I am sure others will weigh in.

Steve

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:59 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:54 am
Posts: 4
Thanks again Steve

The guitarist in my band is a luthier, so he'll be taking it apart anyway to do all sorts of stuff I'd rather not know about!

I know what you're saying about the headstock, but I've looked at several pictures of the American Vintage '62 Re-issue, and mine seems to conform with this. The guitar is 2000/2001 manufacture, and is made in USA (I believe).

But thanks for the further advice, I'll see what numbers are inside.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:18 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: SW Florida
Very well could be just in the picture, too, and I could not quickly find 60 or 61 AV to compare it too - which is why I did not declare either way. They didn't make a 62J with stack knobs, but I seem to remember seeing AV62 with them, which is curious.

Let me know what you find out.

Steve

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:42 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:54 am
Posts: 4
http://www.12fret.com/content/2011/05/11/fender-american-vintage-62-jazz-bass/

http://www.rainbowguitars.com/bass/fender/american-vintage-62-jazz-bass-3-tone-sunburst/0190209800/fe


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:10 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: SW Florida
Yup, I thought I had seen AV62RIs with stackers. Always wondered why as, to the best of my knowledge, Fender had gone to three knobs before the end of the 61 model year. Just a curiosity to me. I really like the stacked knobs. I understand there was an issue with them moving together, so if you adjusted volume, you accidentally adjusted the tone, or the other way around. I only own one stacker at the moment, and I have not had that problem, in fact, it is one of my favorite basses.

Again, the headstock profile on link #2, where there is closeup, does not match what I see in your picture - but since you have it in your hands and say it matches, that is what counts, and any discrepancy must be due to the angle of the photo.

PS. Okay, so I have spent the last couple hours reviewing stacked knobs and I know less now that I did before. I have references that show the stacked knobs replaced in late 1961. Another that says phased out in early 1962. A third says the three knob control was introduced in 1961 but the stacked knob was not totally phased out until early 1962. So I hit the internet and read a bunch of threads, all giving the same three options. None of the articles (so far) have stated calendar year or model year. I think it is safe to say that since the 62RI has stacked knobs, that a jazz bass in 1962 had stacked knobs. Had Fender moved to the July 1st - June 30th model year? Was a jazz bass produced in early 1962 still part of the 1961 model year? Is that the issue? I am going to run this down. It has been very interesting so far.

I know this has nothing to do with your question about legitmacy, but it is still an interesting topic. Since you now own a stacker, I thought you might like the info - or lack thereof.

Here is one link I thought you would find interesting:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-t ... z-control/

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:04 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Looks like the Fender American Vintage Reissue '62 Jazz. This should have the extra strap button on the back of the headstock but can't tell if it is there or not from the photos. Everything else looks correct except the tugbar (finger rest) is not there, yet the holes for it seems to be there so it was apparently removed.

American Vintage Reissues don't have country of origin markings because the original instrument they are modeled from didn't either. That is why the serial is only on the neckplate like in 1962 also. This is a practice started with the first Vintage Reissues which were made near the end of Fender manufacturing at the original Fullerton complex.

You can email Fender Consumer Relations with a serial inquiry and they can give you lots of information including shipping date and destination. These came with a special deluxe brown case, chrome bridge and pickup covers, a strap and cable just like they did in 1962 but the covers were not installed.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:22 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 8:16 am
Posts: 78
It looks good to me. I own 3 62 AVRI.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:15 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:01 am
Posts: 2842
Has anyone mentioned anything about the contour decal? I've always thought those were positioned out in the round field near the top of the headstock face.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:58 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:03 pm
Posts: 7
affprod wrote:

To confirm my suspicions, I pulled out a 1960 reissue made in the Fender Custom Shop. When comparing to mine, the headstock is not formed correctly and the string tree is not placed appropriately. I pulled out four other jazz basses at random, and confirmed the contour is not in keeping with the norm for jazz basses.

Until/unless we go further, I am lacking confidence in the headstock, and could not say you have the real deal.

Go to fender.com and check out the current jazz bass headstocks. Google 1960-1961 Fender Jazz Bass, click on images, and look at the vintage headstocks. You will notice that on the G side, the headstock starts to sweep away from the neck immediately. Looking at your bass, the closeup of the headstock pic, it appears to stay level, or even close in on the G when leaving the neck. Not what I wanted to see.

Steve


Steve, I'm intrigued by your headstock observations... Particularly what you say about the G-string side.

I took a look at my Fullerton Reissue 83 62 Jazz tonight and on that one, after the end of the rosewood, the cut is pretty straight (parallel to the G-string) for a bit before it starts to sweep away.

Are you referring to the vintage ones only or to Fender headstocks in general?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:14 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:23 pm
Posts: 311
Location: Marin County
Not nessissarily. Here's a shot of my dad's original '61 Jazz bass headstock with "contour" decal not in the round area.

Image


stroker vance wrote:
Has anyone mentioned anything about the contour decal? I've always thought those were positioned out in the round field near the top of the headstock face.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:28 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: SW Florida
Quote:
Steve, I'm intrigued by your headstock observations... Particularly what you say about the G-string side.

I took a look at my Fullerton Reissue 83 62 Jazz tonight and on that one, after the end of the rosewood, the cut is pretty straight (parallel to the G-string) for a bit before it starts to sweep away.

Are you referring to the vintage ones only or to Fender headstocks in general?


I am actually still working on this discrepancy. I was comparing the headstock on this bass with my FCS60JRI and my 50th Anniversary model, as they were here. On both of those basses, the headstock starts its arc away from the G string almost immediately, maybe a quarter inch, max. So I started looking on the web at AVRIs from 60 and 61, which is where my brain was at the time, and they all seemed to arc away from the G right away.

Since then I have spent some time on the Fender website, Jazz bass section, because all the basses are broadside and allow you to zoom. I have found examples where the pictures could argue both. The first bass on the site is a black Reggie. That one appears very clearly to arc away immediately. Yet if you look at the Marcus right below it, it appears to run with the G a little.

So I pulled out the 60RI again, and the 63J. I held them in my hands and moved the headstock towards me and away from me to see if I could simulate the arc running with the G, and I cannot. Both of those examples, the headstock starts to arc away right off.

If it isn't a camera angle, it has to be physical. So my next project it to see if there is a difference in the nut cut or the tuner placement that might give that illusion. I don't have much confidence that will pan out - so I really have no answer.

Steve

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Have I bought a fake or the real deal?
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:12 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:03 pm
Posts: 7
Interesting!

When you say 'almost immediately', do you mean from the end of the rosewood or already before that?

Could the perception in relation to the string also be influenced by how high/low the string retainer sits on the headstock? That can vary quite a bit, especially on the vintage instruments.

I had a good look around my photo archive as well... It's often difficult to tell though because of various photo angles.

Here's an example I found where it almost looks the opposite, like the cut closes in on the G before it sweeps away. The pic is from a '64 LPB Jazz, so it's a veneer board, not a slab, of course.

Image


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: