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Post subject: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:56 pm
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I have a 72 Jazz Bass same as this

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100-Original-Vin ... 9c9&_uhb=1

Note the G string is closer to the neck edge than the E string and teh same is the case on mine.

On this one they are centered

http://www.fender.com/basses/jazz-bass/ ... ard-black/

Should I try and center mine by moving the bridge ?

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:15 pm
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Offhand, I'd say your neck is slightly mis-aligned with the body. De-tune your strings then loosen your neck screws slightly and try pulling the neck downward (gently, towards the body's lower horn) until the outer E and G strings seem centered on the fretboard. Re-tighten the neck screws and tune the strings back up to pitch.

This phenomenon is quite common with Fender guitars and basses.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:30 pm
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Thanks for the quick response Arjay :)

Another issue I have is that if I play the D and G strings a bit hard the bridge saddle will rattle - I have done a temporary fix by putting some bandaid tape under the screws. It seems to me there is very little downforce on the saddle.
I could try putting a spacer at the neck join to angle the neck a little so that the bridge saddle has to be higher but that may still not solve the issue.
Saddle screws with pointed ends might work but that is not going to be that easy to do although I think I could try that, and maybe punch little holes in the bridge where the screws touch it.
Any suggestions other than replacing with a better bridge? Reluctant to do that on this guitar.
One design solution I can think of would be through the body holes nearer the saddles but not on a 72 instrument eh?


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:57 pm
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I'd hate to see a vintage instrument irreversibly modified in any way. Neck shims were in fact quite common back when your JB was originally built. That would be the most non-invasive mod I could think of that might work. Give it a try first and see if that solves the issue. If/when brotherdave shows up (our resident forum expert on all things related to Fender basses) he may have additional insight into your problem.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:10 pm
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Yes I'd rather build another bass than mess with this one. I have an 'under license' maple jazz bass neck already.

Will wait for brotherdave.
Thanks again.


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:11 pm
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sranauta wrote:
Yes I'd rather build another bass than mess with this one.


+1

I've always coveted the '66 Jazz Bass so I put this clone together using mostly Fender parts and an Allparts neck......

Image

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:34 pm
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Alignment is never perfect. The stock pictures you provided show a G string running true down the edge of the fingerboard. (actual pictures would have been nice) I can live with that. As, evidently, could the owners for the last 42 years.

If your playing style makes the alignment an issue, and if you have tried to work it out with your tech to no avail, then it is time to sell the bass and replace it with something that fits your style of playing.

And speaking of shims, it is amazing the stuff I have pulled out of neck pockets...business cards are are most common, but any advertising...even a Nixon's The One logo, matchbook covers, repair shop advertising...oh yeah, a 1970 Chevy key ID tag, etc. etc. Neck have been artificially adjusted forever...again, it comes down to how it effects your play.

I hope you can work it out to where you are happy. It is a great bass.

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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:39 pm
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That's a beauty RJ !
So what pickups did you use to match the 66 sound or didn't you try to match the sound ?
Reason I ask is my neck pickup may be needing rewinding - it lacks bass - the bridge sounds deeper.
Haven't done any resistance measurements yet or any resoldering


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:58 pm
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Affprod, I agree the neck alignment is not a big deal and I just tried after loosening the screws a bit I can realign the neck. On a non vintage instrument I might have considered putting some adhesive that would fix the neck alignment in place but which would still allow removal of neck if necessary.

As far as the saddle rattle is concerned I think the reason is that for correct intonation the saddle has to be almost at maximum length of the adjustment screw. Again just poor design I think. If the bridge was mounted a little nearer the bridge pickup the saddle could be further back in which case it would be pressed down harder. Heavier gauge strings would also give more pressure on the saddles so maybe this was not an issue in days of yore. I might put in a replacement bridge and keep the original. In the replacement bridge I might just make a couple of conical punch depressions to stop the saddle from rattling laterally.

Is there a truss rod adjustment tool that would allow adjustment without removal of the neck?


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:30 pm
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sranauta wrote:
That's a beauty RJ !
So what pickups did you use to match the 66 sound or didn't you try to match the sound ?
Reason I ask is my neck pickup may be needing rewinding - it lacks bass - the bridge sounds deeper.
Haven't done any resistance measurements yet or any resoldering


I used the CS '62 pickup set. This was actually the second of two Jazz Basses that I built -- the first was identical but with the 3TSB finish. A birthday gift to my bass-player brother.

Lindy Fralin does excellent pickup rewinding, you might contact him for the particulars. Curtis Novak may also offer this service. Both of them have websites.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:10 pm
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Quote:
As far as the saddle rattle is concerned I think the reason is that for correct intonation the saddle has to be almost at maximum length of the adjustment screw. Again just poor design I think. If the bridge was mounted a little nearer the bridge pickup the saddle could be further back in which case it would be pressed down harder. Heavier gauge strings would also give more pressure on the saddles so maybe this was not an issue in days of yore. I might put in a replacement bridge and keep the original. In the replacement bridge I might just make a couple of conical punch depressions to stop the saddle from rattling laterally.

Is there a truss rod adjustment tool that would allow adjustment without removal of the neck?


I would really like to see pics to answer more clearly on the rattle. My 72s saddles are not fully extended and I have excellent intonation, so perhaps there is an issue here that is not instantly jumping to mind, and maybe a pic would help. On one 72 I am running the LaBella fat flats, up to 115, with no issues. I love those strings but am pulling them off two of three basses as I have become worried about neck warp from comments on this forum. The point is, plenty strong, no rattle, both Jazz and Tele. I would like to help. Maybe pics would help, but there is a good chance this exceeds my level of competence.

As far as adjusting the truss rod, you asked the wrong guy. If I am working on a vintage bass, I always pull the neck - but I am in the minority there. It is just that I seem to have a talent for letting the tool slip, especially on the old slotted rods, and causing damage to the bass wood itself, or digging out the pickguard. So I take many steps instead of one. It is just me. However, depending on the build, there are rods that are darn near, if not impossible, to reach with the neck on - and no magic tool.

Steve

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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:24 pm
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Shim the neck. Try a cut down business card first. Then you might have to go to the proton torpedo, which is a folded over matchbook cover. Sometimes people remove necks, the factory shim falls out and they neglect to put it back in. It happens. Also when tightening the neck bolts this should be done evenly all around the four of them. If you tighten one way down it pulls the neck off center. They should be tightened gradually rotating around all 4 screws over and over while the neck is properly aligned.

Truss rods need infrequent adjustment on these, just a screwdriver works. Reasons to do it would include string changes to a different set. Sometimes just removing the pickguard gives you enough access to keep from removing the neck. The problem is providing pressure for manual relief is difficult with neck heel truss rod adjustment access, not so much what tool. It works easier with two people. I'm not a big fan of removing necks at all.

For the bridge rattle, try dabs of clear fingernail polish on the ends of the bridge screws at the contact points with the bridge baseplate so the polish makes contact with the baseplate and not the metal screws. Doing multiple coats of the polish might help. I use the clear polish on bridge screw threads all the time to stop a saddle from sinking which is a problem on some CBS era Fender basses. The polish doesn't harm the screws at all and will just break right off when you want it to. In fact I'd dab some on the screw threads where they enter the bottom of the saddle to insure the rattle isn't coming from there. The pickup usually won't transfer bridge rattle to the amp, so really it is primarily an annoyance to you. I like the band aid bit. That works too but the polish would be invisible. Also check that the bridge screws securing the bridge to the body are snugged just in case that is why.

Also I have to ask, are you sure the rattle is coming from the bridge and not the truss rod?


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:13 pm
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Brotherdave

Thank you for a comprehensive reply which indicates you got exactly what I was talking about.

I did add a shim to the neck to lift it so that the bridge saddle screw tops would disappear into the saddles as they are painful otherwise for damping with palm.

Your nail varnish suggestion is just perfect - I will try that.

I have to read up exactly what you mean by manual relief but I think taking the pickguard off is the way to go.

I am going to make a video of my guitar and put on you tube and then share here just so others can use it too.

Doesn't adding a shim create a space between the neck and body - not that I have noticed that it makes any audible difference but when people talk about a well fitted neck joint this gap runs against that - your thoughts?. How about some nail varnish in the neck joint to fix the neck in place - still allowing it to be removed if necessary? What else could be used this way - would hide glue be advisable?

Once again appreciate your reply and to the point advice


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:09 pm
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"Manual relief" is when you press with your hand upon the headstock in the direction you want the neck to go when you tighten or loosen the truss rod nut. You do this with the body secured between your feet and legs on an instrument with a headstock truss rod access. It is really clumsy to do with a neck heel adjustment and you have to have a friend help. Manual relief is beneficial because it takes strain off the truss rod threads and nut until you release your hand. It makes the adjustment easier and safer for the truss rod and nut.


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Post subject: Re: Lateral bridge position on 1972 Jazz Bass
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:27 pm
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Also I would not use anything in the neck pocket like nail polish or glue of any sort. It would behave very differently on wood than metal and might not break free at all. On metal a dab of clear nail polish just pops off in a harmless chunk when you manually turn the bridge screw with a tad of force. It is a great way to stop sinking saddles.

I can tell no difference in sustain or anything like that in a shimmed instrument versus no shim. The bolts and neckplate make enough contact with the neck and body to transfer sufficient vibration. That's why shimming is largely considered an ok adjustment and doesn't really hurt the tone. The bolts and neckplate are the main transfer mechanism between the body and neck instead of wood to wood contact. Lots of very good sounding basses have a lot of slop in the neck pocket joint, so to me a tight neck pocket while desirable for aesthetic purposes is not the be all and end all of good tone. At most it might improve sustain a teeny tiny smidgeon. Not enough to sweat over. It's more of a craftsmanship thing than anything else. Late CBS basses were notorious for huge neck pocket gaps, but they sound fine.


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