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Post subject: Re: Squier Bass By Fender from 89 It is false or not?
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:38 am
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There is nothing wrong with using an Ibanez bass when you feel like it.

I have two and I paid less than 80 bucks for each of them and they are great active basses with very thin necks. Sometimes 24 frets and active elec. just hits the spot!

The Heartfield connection is just my rambling on about what Fender came out with in the nineties.

It just seems to me that Heartfield basses were very close to Ibanez and may have been made by them or some other asian manufacturer. I don't know for sure, but I am pretty confident that the basses were asian and not USA manufactured.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Bass By Fender from 89 It is false or not?
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:29 pm
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Speaking of Heartfield, I just found this site (not sure if anyone has ever posted or discussed this here before) http://www.heartfield-central.com/ Yeah, I see what you mean about those basses do have an Ibanez vibe. I remember the name back in the day, but I don't recall if I ever seen one in person, much less ever had a chance to play one. Speaking of Ibanez, I also have a CT series bass. It seems like they only made them for a year, since they were in their catalog for 1992, from what I've found. http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/us/1992/ct.jpg

It's a nice bass, but I need some work done with the electronics. It seems to have a short in it, or it could need cleaning. It's been used in the studio and back up when I had the P-Bass Lyte running. That's another one that needs some work, too. It's funny, I have a total of five basses, yet all but one need work done to them to really be suitable for work. At least my guitars are in good shape.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Bass By Fender from 89 It is false or not?
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:08 pm
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Affprod, no Ibanez did not "morph" from Gibson. The parent company of what we know as Ibanez was Hoshino Gakki and they actually started out about 1929 as the musical instrument division of another company that has been primarily in the bookstore business since 1908 in Japan and is still known as Hoshino Shoten. Hoshino stores are as ubiquitous in Japan as Barnes & Nobles bookstores are in the USA.

The way the Ibanez brand name came about is that early on Hoshino Gakki imported Spanish made "Ibanez Salvador" guitars for sale in the musical instrument section in some of the larger Hoshino Shoten stores. When they decided to contract out guitars in Japan the Hoshino musical instrument division again used the Ibanez Salvador brand name which soon "morphed" into just "Ibanez." When they stopped importing from Spain Hoshino began contracted existing Japanese guitar plants such as Fujigen Gakki and Teisco to make Ibanez Salvador and later Ibanez branded guitars. The Salvador part was dropped from the brand name becoming simply Ibanez.

The fact Fujigen made Ibanez instruments in Japan for decades and later would partner with FMIC to make Heartfield guitars and basses is one connection between Ibanez and Heartfield and probably why their are some design similarities between both brands like the 2+2 headstock.

At one time Ibanez primarily was copying Fender & Gibson designs for their electrics and this period is known as the "Lawsuit Era" of Ibanez instruments. Really I think it is more that Ibanez copied the Heartfield designs as much as it is Heartfield copied Ibanez. For example Ibanez basses never had active electronics or neck through construction until after Heartfield folded.

When Heartfield was formed it was primarily to compete with Yamaha and Ibanez guitars and basses since these two brands had made significant penetration into markets previously dominated by USA makes like Fender and Gibson garnering a disturbing share of the market, especially in entry and mid-line priced instruments.

Heartfield's goal was to turn this trend around and bring players looking for the latest innovations back to the FMIC fold by making the best guitars and basses ever turned out from Japan and selling these incredibly advanced instruments at a mid-line price in western markets. It was doable on paper at the time the concept was adopted and the team assembled. The original Heartfield team was composed of design, production and marketing people from Fender, Fujigen and Yamaha.

Heartfield set out to out-Yamaha Yamaha and out-Ibanez Ibanez. They succeeded to a large degree, especially on the premium Heartfield basses which sported features never seen in a mass production bass such as the low impedance XLR output, neck through construction and ultra-premium woods on some high end Heartfield models. The Heartfield instruments, especially the Heartfield premium basses, are still remarkably modern and ultra-desirable for advanced professional players even today.

Unfortunately the Heartfield brand line came to fruition at precisely the same time that the Yen blew up against the US Dollar making the high end Heartfield instruments as expensive as a USA made Fender which nobody had counted on when the brand was launched. So FMIC pulled the plug on the Heartfield brand itself, but kept making some of the simpler Heartfield designs under the Fender brand such as the P-Bass Lyte and eventually under the Squier brand as the MB-4 and MB-5, which was only recently discontinued. Some of these Squier Heartfield legacy models had the skull and crossbone design on them and some were just solid color. The Squier MB's were Indonesian made with the typical substandard Indonesian hardware, electronics and cheaper woods, but they were the last production basses using an old Heartfield design.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Bass By Fender from 89 It is false or not?
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:57 pm
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Thank you BD. Makes sense. Several years ago, a guy at Sam Ash told me they broke off from Gibson and I never thought about it being right or wrong till this thread recalled that memory. Appreciate the input.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Bass By Fender from 89 It is false or not?
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:48 am
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affprod wrote:
Thank you BD. Makes sense. Several years ago, a guy at Sam Ash told me they broke off from Gibson and I never thought about it being right or wrong till this thread recalled that memory. Appreciate the input.


For a while Ibanez was copying so many USA made instruments it might have appeared that they could have been a Japanese division of either Gibson or Fender, so a natural mistake probably based on an assumption from seeing so many copies. Ibanez is a brand that has been primarily outsourced to other manufacturers. I think Guyatone also made some acoustic/electrics in addition to Fujigen Gakki who got all the Ibanez solid body contracts after Teisco closed down and some premium acoustics were made by Suzuki Violin. Ibanez had contracts with every major guitar plant in Japan except Tokai.

Except for a brief period from about 1958 till about 1966 Hoshino Gakki/Ibanez has never actually made anything! Ibanez operated a small plant in a Tokyo suburb called Tama during this period, but it was cheaper to outsource production to large scale contractors so they closed it. Ibanez hasn't actually ever made anything except for that lone 8 year period and that was only a small fraction of the Ibanez branded instruments during the period. For some reason I haven't figured out yet Tokai is about the only major Japanese guitar maker to never make Ibanez instruments under contract. There must be a reason though. Tokai stuff was pretty solid and they in fact were considered by the newborn FMIC to make the transition Japanese Fenders that FMIC distributed until Corona got up and running. Instead at the last possible moment Fujigen got the contract. Big surprise for Tokai I'm sure because by all accounts the deal was all set.

The Asian guitar business is a perplexing thing to Americans, including me. I find it fascinating the way they do business there. There are lots of big plants but only a few plants market their own brands in Japan. Tokai and the now defunct Teisco are exceptions to that rule. When we in America see a brand name on a guitar or amp we assume that company made it in their own plant. The fact is that Fender Japan has never made a single guitar or bass but contracts everything out, mostly to Fujigen but at times to other plants like Dyna Gakki. There is no Fender plant and there never has been one in Japan.

Things are very similar in China. Lots of plants but none of them so far as I know market their own brand and just make instruments to order under contract to brand name distributors. Easily 95% of Asian made guitars were not made by the company whose name is on the headstock.

Korean based Cort and Samick are two other Asian exceptions. Both are making guitars for many famous brands at plants all over Asia now, while also marketing their own brands. The Korean made Cort and Samick branded guitars are quite good values too. Samick made some "S" serial Squiers for example while also selling very similar Samick branded ones for less than a Squier. The only difference really was the headstock shape. Cort on the other hand has completely unique designs for their Cort brand instruments while making famous iconic models for other brands. Cort branded basses made in Korea are not cheap, but they are first rate Korean basses and fairly affordable. You don't see them around new in stores much, but they are at least as good as an Ibanez.

Ibanez had some of their Prestige series instruments made in Japan such as the SR1000 bass. They were really, really expensive. I don't know for sure who made them but the serial on them started with an "F" so more likely than not it was Fujigen. Modern Ibanez serials usually start with the first letter of the plant that actually made them. That helps a lot in figuring where your instrument was made. Squier has done the same thing from time to time when they were building instruments in one country at more than one plant at a time. Such as the period when Korean Squiers were being made at Cort, Samick Sung Eum getting a C, S or E serial.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Bass By Fender from 89 It is false or not?
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:01 pm
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The one thing I have to say is that I've always had the best luck with Japanese-made basses. I never had one that I didn't have an issue with and the only reason I ever sold them was for dumb reasons, in retrospect. You know it goes, you get G.A.S. and that's one way to get money to pay for it. The two top ones I had were a early '90s made (probably 1993 when I bought it) '50s Reissue P-Bass and a Kawai bass that looked like an Alembic copy. I also had an Aria Pro Cardinal Series bass, but I was too much of a newb to really say how good it was when I had it. I remember it was easy to play (though I could barely play anything at the time,) so I suppose it was a pretty good one, too.

Has anyone ever tried to remember what it was like when you started out and didn't know how to play anything? It's so hard to imagine that after all of these years (and some of you have been playing as long as I've been alive and before that) how your instrument looked to you compared to now. What seemed daunting becomes almost second nature, although there's always more you can learn. What I can't imagine is not playing an instrument at all. I know plenty of people that don't and kind of baffles me. It's so ingrained into me, I wouldn't know what to do without it. Even if I don't touch a bass or guitar for a couple of days, that's always in the back of my mind. It never goes away.

Getting back to Heartfield, Brother Dave mentioned Yamaha, and that was another brand I thought about when I looked at their bass models besides Ibanez. They did have that kind of vibe to them, too.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Bass By Fender from 89 It is false or not?
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:05 pm
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Now we are really off topic, but in a very cool way.

Quote:
Has anyone ever tried to remember what it was like when you started out and didn't know how to play anything? It's so hard to imagine that after all of these years (and some of you have been playing as long as I've been alive and before that) how your instrument looked to you compared to now. What seemed daunting becomes almost second nature, although there's always more you can learn. What I can't imagine is not playing an instrument at all. I know plenty of people that don't and kind of baffles me. It's so ingrained into me, I wouldn't know what to do without it. Even if I don't touch a bass or guitar for a couple of days, that's always in the back of my mind. It never goes away.


Yes, I am there. When I plan travel I see who I can hook up with in advance...and I am talking my generation term for hooking up, not this generations term. I throughly enjoy sitting in with "new friends". And if I don't play for a couple days, it becomes a need. It is my way of unwinding. Which is why I have at least one bass tucked away at each office.

Sorry for being off topic, but CPL's post just struck a nerve. A good one.

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