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Post subject: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:47 am
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Hi there, i'm new on fender comminty, but i need you help.

Indeed, i have a Fender Classic '70s jazz Bass Mexican, and i would like ton know the outpout rating of my pickups, because i think i'll change them for american vintage.
But before doing anything, i would like to know if one of you could tell me the bass/Mid/tremble of each pickup of my jazz bass.
http://www.fender.com/basses/jazz-bass/ ... pickguard/


Thanks for your support guys

Sorry for my mistakes, i come from France ^^

Bye


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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:41 am
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Only you can measure the output of your pickups. Take your bass to a technician who can measure each pickup for its rating in Ohms.

There is no way to tell you what your pickups are doing without having the bass.

Good luck with your pickups.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:52 pm
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Don't even worry about your MIM pickups just put the USA's in it . I can't tell you how many MIM's I've put USA pickups in. It's the magnets - at least it used to be. You want ALNICO magnets. Those are USA- unless something changed over nite and it usually does.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:05 am
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Your question is a bit odd. Use a digital multimeter and a guitar cord to measure your pickups with. What do you mean by mids, bass and "tremble"? Do you mean treble? Just measure the ohms. It is much simpler to do than you think. After you get your readings, you can post your results and ask something like, "What were the ohms readings from a 70s J bass?" I hope that helps out. If I put my digital multimeter at 20K ohm setting and, use a guitar cord. I put one lead on the tip and, the other on the side past the black ring (other side of tip). I came up with 10.91 ohms reading on my 1978 Precision bass. Just trying to keep it simple for you.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:21 pm
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I think my 74 Fender pickups are 6 or 8k- they are not very good sounding. I replaced them with Dimarzios that are 11k. That may help. Usually you can find out the sound of the pickups thru advertising for them-- they'll say things like "sparkling highs", "nice lower mid response", "Lot's of bass" etc etc.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:35 pm
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Hi there
Thank you guys guys for your help.

Indeed, when I say bass/mid/tremble of my pickups, I refers to the same information we can find on fender website :
http://www.fender.com/guitar-bass-parts ... -set-of-2/

Thanks again ;)


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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:37 am
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stroker vance wrote:
Don't even worry about your MIM pickups just put the USA's in it . I can't tell you how many MIM's I've put USA pickups in. It's the magnets - at least it used to be. You want ALNICO magnets. Those are USA- unless something changed over nite and it usually does.


Mexican Standard Jazz Basses have ceramic pickups, but the Mexican Classic'70s Jazz model that the OP is asking about has always had alnico magnets. Most of the MIM Classic Series have pretty good pickups -- a big step up from MIM Standards.

I've never seen, heard, or played a MIM Classic'70s Jazz, so I can't say how they compare to American Vintage pickups. But based on other MIM Classics I wouldn't automatically assume that they need to be replaced.

The bass/middle/treble ratings are pretty subjective. Someone listens to the pickups and makes a rough estimate of the tonal balance -- it's not a precise scientific measurement.

Seymour Duncan started the B/M/T thing and has those ratings for all his pickups. But if you look carefully you'll see that some pickups that have very different sounds have the exact same rating -- it's just a very rough guide.

Fender only provides those ratings for the pickups they sell separately, and if someone else tried to give you a rating of your stock pickups the ratings would probably vary form Fender's ratings, so it's pretty meaningless.

The better approach is to figure out what you don't like about the stock pickups and then ask for replacement suggestions. Are the stock pickups too muddy? Too bright/thin? Mid heavy or mid scooped? Too hot? Too weak?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:36 pm
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Quote:
Don't even worry about your MIM pickups just put the USA's in it .


+1

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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:31 pm
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You can't go solely by the impedance (Ohms) of the pickups. In order to measure Ohms accurately you have to disconnect a pickup from the circuit otherwise you won't get an accurate reading. There is another measurement you need to compare also, which is inductance measured in Henries. Few pickup makers ever specify inductance in Henries. Very rarely will you see Henries specified.

Higher Ohm readings do not mean higher fidelity, but exactly the opposite. Higher Ohm readings mean you can expect a higher output level when comparing pickups that are otherwise identical in design and components with the only difference being the number of turns of wire in the coil. The more turns of wire the higher the impedance in Ohms. Change anything else other than the winding and you also change the character or output level. Ohm readings alone are a valid tool to compare the output potential of otherwise identical pickups only!

Output level and fidelity is a compromise. You can not have both in a standard single coil pickup, which is the pickup type used in a typical Jazz Bass and a first generation P-Bass. Over-wind a single coil pickup to force a louder output and you will absolutely sacrifice highs and upper-mids. No way around it. Under-wind the same pickup a tad and you get wider fidelity but you will lose a tad of output. It is a balancing act.

Sorry, but that is a fact of passive bass life. If you want a passive Jazz Bass that sounds more like a Precision than a Jazz Bass then just over-wind the pickups 10% and/or split or stack the coils and voila! Congratulations you made your Jazz Bass sound more like a P-Bass than a Jazz!

I'd rather have a pair of vintage wound full fidelity single coil pickups in a well shielded Jazz Bass than over-wound pickups or split coils or stacked coils (sometimes called "Noiseless" pickups.) When you stack or split coils you also lose highs because it becomes a humbucker that LOOKS like a single coil and humbuckers never have that single coil full fidelity. To me personally single coil full fidelity tone is what makes a Jazz Bass...well, a Jazz Bass.

The early 60's Jazz Basses are the fullest fidelity standard production passive Fender Jazzes. After about 1965 they started winding the pickups more and more almost annually to make them progressively louder. Eventually this got to the point that the tone control didn't really do all that much.

When a player compared a new 69 Jazz in the store to their 62 it did sound louder with the store's amp at exactly the same volume. So, they figured they needed to be louder and bought the louder one. Remember, this was when 75 watts was a lot of bass amp and even top players could not wrangle any more than 100 watts. Plus no one was using crossover controlled multiple speaker arrays with horns or tweeters, so they didn't miss the upper mids/treble at all. Anything that was louder was deemed an "improvement" and desirable.

Of course today we have megawatt plus amps plus advanced EQ systems, emulation, crystal clean preamps and three-way cabs with high fidelity crossovers that were not even envisioned in 1970. Not to mention direct PA feeds when playing live today and direct-inputs into recording consoles.

The plain truth is that with the massive power of modern amplification and the 2-way and 3-way speaker arrays of today no Jazz Bass owner actually needs over-wound pickups UNLESS they want overwound pickups to intentionally make their Jazz Bass sound bassy. Otherwise the truth is that over-winding and a higher Ohm reading actually becomes a tonal restraint, not an enhancement. Maybe a pick player would find over-wound pickups a real necessity to tame pick click. As a finger style player I want high fidelity for tonal range instead of having 2dB more output at the expense of upper mids and treble! I need the upper tonal stuff myself.

Being a 70's reissue your instrument may actually have over-wound pickups to approximate the character of the ever increasing winding turns of the CBS era which this instrument would be aiming to recreate. So you'll probably get higher Ohm readings from your stock pickups than from a pair of Fender Original Jazz Bass Pickups which approximate the early 60's windings. I've never compared the pickups you have to anything so I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if they read at least 10% higher than an early 60's pair.

That being said you can spend $120 for mass production Fender pickups or $300+ for custom wound ones and it won't add any VALUE to your instrument to anyone but YOU. You should not expect the instrument to be inherently worth more just because you upgraded ANYTHING. Any upgrade should be done for YOU because you NEED it and you should ONLY do upgrades on an instrument you plan to keep because you'll never ever get your investment back when you sell or trade. Guess what? The next owner might hate your upgrades and reverse them first thing back to stock!

As was previously suggested you should determine what you don't like about the tone now and then figure what to do about it. Good suggestion. If you feel it is lacking upper mids/highs and you want them then a change is possibly worthwhile for your personal satisfaction. Fender Original Jazz Bass Pickups will fix that. The output won't be quite as hot, but from my point of view passive bass output volume today is of secondary importance to full fidelity tone. You can always cut highs or lows with EQ but you simply can not boost what is NOT there in the first place.

Blindly trying pickups suggested in any bass enthusiast forum is like posting on a sports car forum asking what is the best sports car you can buy. Some people say Ferrari while others say Aston Martin and still others might say McLaren or some other exotic make. Me? I'd say a 63 Corvette or 1969 Shelby Cobra. You can't say any of those answers are wrong because they are all great sports cars, but they are obviously different and the differences make one sports car "better" to some people than others.

Likewise, you would not decide which sports car was right for you by simply comparing a bunch of numbers some engineer crunched and then the company published in their literature or on their website. You would actually DRIVE the cars you were considering. That is also what you need to do here.

I am one of the few proponents of VINTAGE-WOUND pickups that are under-wound by today's standards. Before you say I'm just an old geezer, ask yourself this question. "Why do the earlier models sound so good?" Because the pickups are NOT crazy over-wound is one reason. Sand cast Alnico magnets is another.

NOW HEAR THIS! Vintage winds work for ME, but could be totally and tragically wrong for YOU.

I suggest getting to a big store and playing a bunch of passive Jazz Basses from very very old ones to brand new ones till you find one with pickups you like better than any others and then order a set of those, whatever era, brand or type they turn out to be. Don't go by numbers someone crunched either. Go by tone! Happy Motoring!

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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups outpout rating
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:37 am
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Good post BrotherDave. I learned some there.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Classic '70s pickups output rating
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:45 pm
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Thanks Bro Dave, I always get a great feeling every time I read your Fender bass posts.
Bon Ruiz


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