It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:39 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:04 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 32
Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Are Fender designs already public domain?
I've seen hundreds of Fender clones coming up everywhere, can anyone share his ideas on this?
Thank you very much.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:11 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:01 am
Posts: 2842
Some companies pay Fender. Some companies copies of necks and bodies are not exact. There are small differences. Fender has gone after companies in the past. One of them was Fernandes.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:22 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:04 pm
Posts: 388
Location: Lititz, PA
Fender tried and lost.
http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/guitars/fender-loses-guitar-copyright-case-201886


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:15 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:09 pm
Posts: 417
People are copying Fender and getting by with it. Sound fair to you?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:28 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: SW Florida
I guess I don't have a problem with people legally copying Fender, once patents or copywrites have expired. What bugs me is when they do it illegally and then, to top it off, put a Fender decal on it and sell it as a Fender. Now that, I have a real problem with. And we see that plenty, just on this forum.

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:08 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 261
Fender does actively defend their patents and trademarks and it isn't inexpensive to do so. If company 'x' starts calling their electric Bass a "Jazz Bass", Fender's attorneys will enforce their claim to the trademark.

Copyrights are for written works such as music, movies, literary works, etc. A company can obtain a license from the holder and then use the protected intellectual property.

The simple shape of the body or the headstock cannot be patented. They could be trademarked when introduced, but I do not know of Fender ever did so and they would have to actively enforce it against all entities attempting to use it. Harley Davidson does this with their 'Bar and Shield' logo.

_________________
Sent from my K&E slide rule.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:31 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Northern Virginia
seismic wrote:
The simple shape of the body or the headstock cannot be patented. They could be trademarked when introduced, but I do not know of Fender ever did so and they would have to actively enforce it against all entities attempting to use it. Harley Davidson does this with their 'Bar and Shield' logo.


I was under the impression that Fender's headstock shapes are visual trademarks and can not be legally reproduced without a license. The body shapes, however, have been copied for so many years that they are no longer copyright protected.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:00 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:54 am
Posts: 327
Location: Tidewater, Virginia
Fender has their head stocks trademarked, but as my understanding when each guitar was produced Leo & Company did not do the same for the body shapes.

_________________
1965 Fender Precision Bass, 1994 Fender '54 Reissue Precision Bass, 2007 Applause Celebrity, 2011 Fender American Special Jazz Bass, 2012 Squier Vintage Modified Jazzmaster, 2013 Fender American Special Stratocaster, 2013 Gibson LPJ


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:58 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:00 am
Posts: 1226
Location: In the pocket north of Washington D.C.
Fender went through the courts to try to trademark their body shapes like they have done with their head stock shape. They lost on the bodies because they did not go after the copy companies for years. Therefore, they didn't defend their body shapes enough according to the court.
That's why other guitar makers can make Teles, Strats, Jazz basses and P basses until the cows come home.

The only headstock shape protected as a trademark is the Strat style headstock.

You can legally make a Tele shaped headstock and put your name on it and sell it.
It is unethical to do so, but makers have done it.

You can't call it a Telecaster though.

_________________
If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:53 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:13 pm
Posts: 3
FWIW, Fenders had been copied for a really long time. My first "Jazz Bass" that I bought back in 1976 (I was 13) looked exactly like my MIJ black and white Geddy Lee Jazz Bass except that it didn't have clover leaf tuners. It was made by Cortez. I guess my point is that if Fender wasn't doing anything about it back then, they have little chance to do so now.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:45 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26416
Location: Tombstone Territory
Fullback32 wrote:
FWIW, Fenders had been copied for a really long time. My first "Jazz Bass" that I bought back in 1976 (I was 13) looked exactly like my MIJ black and white Geddy Lee Jazz Bass except that it didn't have clover leaf tuners. It was made by Cortez. I guess my point is that if Fender wasn't doing anything about it back then, they have little chance to do so now.


+1

Back in the '70s, Cort, Turser, Ibanez, and many others were cranking out virtual copies of Fender instruments but CBS did not take the offshore threat as seriously as they should've. Come the '80s when they were looking to dump Fender and trademark-infringement concerns slid even lower on their list of priorities. By the time of the reformed FMI in 1985 the train had already left the station and Fender lost the legal challenge to re-exert control over the propriety of their body shapes. They were successful in defending the trademarked headstock shape though. "Lawsuit" copies of Fender guitars still show up from time to time on Ebay.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:56 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:09 pm
Posts: 417
Nash basses are like the fake sculptures you find at a hardware store.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:22 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:00 am
Posts: 1226
Location: In the pocket north of Washington D.C.
Quote:
+1

Back in the '70s, Cort, Turser, Ibanez, and many others were cranking out virtual copies of Fender instruments but CBS did not take the offshore threat as seriously as they should've. Come the '80s when they were looking to dump Fender and trademark-infringement concerns slid even lower on their list of priorities. By the time of the reformed FMI in 1985 the train had already left the station and Fender lost the legal challenge to re-exert control over the propriety of their body shapes. They were successful in defending the trademarked headstock shape though. "Lawsuit" copies of Fender guitars still show up from time to time on Ebay.

Arjay


Arjay- I think that Fender did take the copy cats seriously back in the '70s. that is why they started the Squire line. The problem when you are fighting foreign manufacturers is knowing just what the legal means are to get them to cease making the copies.
The only thing that got copiers' attention was when Fender stopped a shipment of Fernandes guitars at the port of entry and cut off all of the Fender clone head stocks.

Don't think that they didn't care about the copies. It was more of what can you do about it at the time. Remember that all of these defensive actions require a court to render a decision in your favor. Only then can you act against another company.

Fender only recently lost control over their body shapes. The Strat style headstocks are trademarked. The Telecaster headstock is public domain AFAIK.

bassman Bill

_________________
If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:01 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26416
Location: Tombstone Territory
BCbassman wrote:
Arjay- I think that Fender did take the copy cats seriously back in the '70s. that is why they started the Squire line. The problem when you are fighting foreign manufacturers is knowing just what the legal means are to get them to cease making the copies.


To an extent, this is true. But by the early '80s, CBS was looking to dump FMI and they were loath to defend the trademarks as vociferously as they might've simply because they wanted no further "entanglements". You may remember that they were *this close* (><) to simply shuttering the plant and closing down the brand name forever. That did not happen of course, but the fledgling FMIC which arose from the ashes initially lacked the wherewithal to protect its proprietary interests. In the late '80s, unauthorized copies of Fender guitars (and other brands) were still readily available. And it took losing the court battle to protect Fender's body shapes to force FMIC to take the threat as seriously as it should've been from the outset. That they prevailed to maintain their headstock trademark supports this hypothesis.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Fender go after the "clones" in the market?
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:55 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:00 am
Posts: 1226
Location: In the pocket north of Washington D.C.
It's hard to believe that CBS came close to shutting down Fender forever back in 1985.

How much would Fender basses be worth if they actually stopped making them?

I would imagine that their value would skyrocket.

I would guess that it has proven to be a good investment for those that bought the company from CBS.

_________________
If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: