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Post subject: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:05 am
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Hi guys! I have Fender Jazz Bass 1983.

I bought this bass for three years ago and play it with pleasure. Good sound, good action and it looks very good too. But I decieded to sell it. I published photos on forum in my country and one pro.bass player said, that it probably fake fender because serial number is not valid :( I tried to search in official Fender s/n table and really didn't find my serie!

E + 5 digits

Any advice? Does E + 5 digits valid or fake? Please help if anyone have useful info about my JB.

Photos:
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Last edited by leto525 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:55 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:33 am
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:shock: I can't wait to see the story of this one.


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:52 am
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This serial question comes up a lot. It is possibly an export instrument and that is an export serial.

An E+5 numeric serial doesn't compute based on any online serial tables. However most online serial guides for USA made Fenders address domestic distribution serials almost exclusively and that makes them useless in evaluation of export instruments.

I can not say if yours is legitimate USA made Fender based on the limited photos and likely it would take an in person inspection involving some partial disassembly to say for certain. The pickguard and pickup covers aren't all I see that are not 1983 correct either. The knobs are also wrong for 1983 and if you didn't change the knobs, which you didn't mention changing, either it is a fake or someone else changed them before you got it.

CBS Fender used different serial number formats on instruments produced for export to foreign distributors. The oddball serial format locked export instruments out of the Fender warranty in North America. These are "orphan" instruments that Fender/CBS sold to offshore distributors who operate their own support systems independent of Fender's. It is the same instrument as one with a USA serial in every detail except the serial format is different and they are excluded from the Fender warranty. That is still the case today as foreign distributors must maintain their own support and warranty systems. There is no Fender warranty on export instruments, but the distributor instead assumes the administration and expense of warranty service. The different serial format also prevents an instrument made for USA distribution from landing in an overseas service center for warranty service at the expense of the foreign distributor.

Also export models were almost always shipped to the distributor without a case included and the distributor either cased them in their own cases or left it up to the consumer to buy one at extra expense. Anytime you see an export serial instrument being sold as coming with the "original" case it probably should not be the same case that came with USA instruments of the day. This is for sure true for instruments imported through the UK by Selmer for Europe. Selmer had their own domestically produced cases that they used instead of the ones Fender included with instruments sold in the USA. I'm extremely skeptical of an export instrument with a Fender USA case the seller claims as coming with the "original case." It probably isn't the original case. It might have happened, but export instruments were shipped without any case so far as I know.

To me these export instruments look far less suspicious stock. It maybe started out as a USA made Fender for export. Can't say for sure.

I can say from the limited photos that the headstock decal looks correct. The serial number font itself looks exactly correct and often doesn't look right on a fake even if the forger gets the trademark script right.

These instruments should also have the deluxe Schaller tuners with the "F" logo on the back, which I can not see. It should also have a "Fender" angled script logo engraved on the 4-screw neckplate which I also can not see. Between the bottom two holes on the neckplate (under the script) there should be a tiny hole for micro-tilt adjustment access. When the neck is removed, on the neck paddle facing the neck pocket there should be a rectangular sticker with 6 ruled lines and blanks numbered 1 through 7 for inspection marks. Often there will be a neck code stamping across several of the lines and initial marks on one or two lines. The paddle should also have the round metal micro-tilt device contact insert. There may be a single code stamp along with inspector initials made by a black marker in the body neck pocket. Sometimes the initials obscure the stamping characters. The metal stop device for the micro-tilt should be mounted in the neck pocket area also. I can't see the electronics but I know the knobs are wrong which bothers me a bit. The one piece pickguard/control plate design with headstock truss-rod adjustment access is correct for 1983 and was carried over along with the push-on Stratocaster type knobs labeled either "VOL" or "TONE" into the first Ensenada plant instruments while the micro-tilt was not carried over to Ensenada.

If you still have the original parts, I'd put them back on to get it back to original configuration including the knobs. It is far more desirable to me personally when in original configuration.

Going to the trouble to fake a mass production Fender bass from the waning days of CBS is just too much trouble to make it worth so much effort. The Fender Fullerton Reissue series though might be worth that much trouble, but not a mass production Jazz Bass. I'd guess it is legit based on that fact and what little I can see, but can't say for sure.


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:51 am
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Wow! Thanks a lot brotherdave, your answer is amazing! So many details. Now I know far more about Fender.

So let's continue our investigation, hope pictures that I've made today will help to clarify whether my Jazzy original or not.

Yep, I've just forgotten to mention that I replaced knobs too, and changed screws to blacks. I installed D-Tuner and Seymour's pickups (I like them a bit more than original, but I kept original pickups of course).

Pics:

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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:08 am
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So then..the Fullerton Reissue team also assembled the choicest of regular production line components for export? Nobody said that..but just a hunch.

Super nice bass.


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:29 pm
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leto525 wrote:
Wow! Thanks a lot brotherdave, your answer is amazing! So many details. Now I know far more about Fender.

So let's continue our investigation, hope pictures that I've made today will help to clarify whether my Jazzy original or not.

Yep, I've just forgotten to mention that I replaced knobs too, and changed screws to blacks. I installed D-Tuner and Seymour's pickups (I like them a bit more than original, but I kept original pickups of course).



That is 100% legitimate USA Fender neck. Herbie Gastelum's stamp seals the deal for me. I'm not seeing stampings or any marks I expected in the neck pocket though. So can't explain that other than some didn't get marked or stamped. That is all I see that made me go "hmmmmm." Otherwise everything looks correct for a USA instrument to me. This was so late in the going that the marks being absent could be an oversight or maybe the inspector's marker was dry and the stamp pad was also dry. Hard to say. But usually there is a code stamp with inspector mark. There is also a possibility the stamping/marks were removed in a refinish job. Hard to say. Repro/after market bodies will not have the micro-tilt insert, so I'd say 99% sure it is original Fender Fullerton. As to whether or not the neck and body shipped together I can't say for sure but I'd say it is a better than 50/50 chance they shipped together that way.

The May '84 neck date might make you think it is an 84 model instead of an 83. It is an 83 as the model year ran from July 1 of 1983 till June 30 of 1984. This is a late 83 model year instrument so you are correct in saying it is a 1983 model, even though the neck date is May of 84.

This is a the regular mass production Jazz Bass.

Fender did launch a Vintage Reissue Series in 1982, but this isn't one of those and I don't know if any Vintage Reissue Series instruments were ever exported or not. I've never actually heard of one that was. Later the Vintage Reissues made in Fullerton became collectively known as Fullerton Reissues. They are highly sought after by collectors and players for possibly being the best basses from Fullerton since 1963, and certainly the scarcest. They were somewhat limited and have been excellent investments. This is NOT one of those. I've never seen a Fullerton Reissue that was exported, but it could have happened I suppose for someone like Keith Richards or someone like that. Fullerton Reissues mostly had serials starting with "V" as I recall, however some of the earliest Fullerton Reissue Telecasters started with a "0" serial stamped on the bridge such as "0109" for example. The "V" serials carried over to Fender Japanese made Vintage Reissues and then to Corona made Vintage Reissues even up to the ones made today. The "V" serial was born at Fullerton in 1982.

Herb (Herbie) Gastelum is a legendary and highly regarded Fender craftsman. He worked at Fullerton starting in 1961 rotating through several areas of production before settling in for a stellar run as a top neck builder and his name stamp is often seen on Fullerton Reissues. When Fender reopened USA production in Corona he went there to become one of the first people working in the Corona Custom Shop so you'll find his stamp on Custom Shop necks also. Mr. Gastelum is to Fender necks what Abigail Ybarra is to Fender pickups. A skilled old hand who became the best of the best. People like Ybarra and Gastelum who worked at Fullerton for Leo Fender and later at the Corona Custom Shop are the reason the Fender name is what it is.

So while this is not one of the highly coveted Fullerton Reissues, it is still a really nice bass to have none the less, especially if you can get it back to all original shape in 9 out of 10 condition. It would be worth more to me than a current production Standard Jazz for sure. How much more? Depends on condition and originality.

70's Fender basses are getting to be out of reach unless you have really deep pockets so many people are migrating to 80's models. This is driving up the price on the 80's Fullerton stuff as people move to it as being affordable which increased demand. They'll never be worth what a Pre-CBS one is worth now because there are simply too many of them, but the value has gone up far more on Fender Fullerton regular mass production models in the last 3 years than I ever anticipated. I never saw the crazy rises in mid 70's prices of late coming either.


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:33 pm
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To recap. Put the original parts back on. All of them. Even the screws. Then you have something.


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:37 pm
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Gotcha! Thanx again David! Very useful and wide answers! Now I'm sure in my Jazzy and I wonder how deep is your knowledge about Fender.


Last edited by leto525 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:07 pm
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I feel better now about my 83 Am Std P bass . I was thinking I had the only 83 Am std Fender bass on the boards. That looks like a sweet bass. I love the black p guard with the SB finish. My 2001 USA STD J has the same deal. :D


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:36 pm
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The 80 through 84 Fender guitars and basses have been catching on in the vintage market over the past year. I was not paying them much attention. Then about a year ago they started obviously moving more briskly and values started to rise so I started paying closer attention. The same 84 Jazz going for $700 five or ten years ago is going for $1250 to $1500 now. That's quite a hike for around here.

Meanwhile the Fullerton Reissues have been flatter value wise over the past five years. They were worth a lot more in the first place of course, but they haven't gone up as much percentage wise. So 5 years ago an 83 Jazz for $700 would have been a decent investment. Most vintage dealers wouldn't mess with them five years ago. Now they are.

So the 80's become the new 70's.


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:19 am
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One more piece of cool news from David! Don't stop! :)


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:31 am
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@brotherdave

White pickup covers are generally considered as a DiMarzio specialty.

I suspect DiMarzio was partially involved in the development of those white Fender bass pickups.


Last edited by chromeface on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:27 am
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:lol:


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:02 pm
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chromeface wrote:
@brotherdave

White pickup covers are generally considered as a DiMarzio specialty.

I suspect DiMarzio was partially involved in the development of those white Fender bass pickups.


I don't know about that Chromey. I will concede that it may have been influenced by people using DiMarzio Pups though. There's no patent on pickup cover colors, so they didn't need anyone's permission. Fender probably realized it looked pretty good to match pickguard, knob and pickup cover colors. This probably would have been a very upper level decision and I don't think anybody at DiMarzio had any input on Fender production decisions except the R&D people at Fender and a few contract designers like Bill Lawrence and Seth Lover who might have had some influence but I don't think either of those guys would have actually cared about cover colors. Oh well. Another mystery we'll have to solve sometime.


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Post subject: Re: Serial number JB 83, please help
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:49 pm
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It really is a shame we cannot access a database of these five digit numbers. This is, what, the fourth or fifth time this year alone?

The bass looks legit to me. Brother Dave has given an accurate and full review. A shame someone engraved the neckplate, but not uncommon. I have purchased several that way, sometimes even the back of the headstock gets decorated with an identifying number.

With regards to value, Brother Dave is right on. The Standard Jazz Bass, 81-84, is doing well everywhere. It was a transition period as the JB started its move to global production with manufacturing in Japan in 85. Don't get me started, but it has turned out okay in the long run, providing many more options for players.

I need to vent a little more. You would think there has to be a database of those numbers someplace. What is the big secret? Why make these guys, and gals, worry that they bought a fake, then come to us only to find out we cannot say for sure, but it looks right. Okay, I feel better now.

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