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Post subject: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:22 am
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Hello guys, I have a '63 Fender Jazz Bass from my late father and I am trying to find out if it is 100% original. I try to contact Fender by email but everytime the emails bounced back. So, can you help me please? What I need to know is if the body is original (colours are faded on the front of the body) or it is a re-finished one? Also, the code from the pots (same on all 3) is: 250K AUD 304-6340 70-2125-0034. Serial number from the plate is: L09XXX. Neck is stamped with 7 JUN 63 A. And one more thing, what's the price range (min. price or the fair price) where I should sell it for, if it's 100 original? Here comes pictures, thanks.
http://s1057.photobucket.com/
http://forums.rgc.ro/topic/83663-fender-jazz-bass-1963/

Can anyone tell me an email address from Fender (except consumerrelations@fender.com)??? Thanks!


Last edited by utuco_80 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:38 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:19 pm
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The Stackpole pots indicate they were made in the 40th week of 1963 and the L-prefixed serial is consistent with that model year. The "A" on your neck's heel designates a narrow neck profile (standard width necks are stamped with a "B"). I'd say the instrument appears to be original.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:25 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The Stackpole pots indicate they were made in the 40th week of 1963 and the L-prefixed serial is consistent with that model year. The "A" on your neck's heel designates a narrow neck profile (standard width necks are stamped with a "B"). I'd say the instrument appears to be original.

HTH

Arjay


Thank you very much, it remains to find out if the body is original or it was refinished...can you click that link to see the pictures? I'm trying to sell it on the Romanian Guitarist Community (RGC) and I've posted a lot of pictures there. Or can you teach me how to add pictures here? Thank you very much!


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:32 pm
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The finish appears to be original, albeit extremely faded with age. I'm sure brother dave and the oxfan (this forum's resident Fender bass experts) will be along presently to offer additional insight.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:00 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The finish appears to be original, albeit extremely faded with age. I'm sure brother dave and the oxfan (this forum's resident Fender bass experts) will be along presently to offer additional insight.

Arjay

Ok,
Thank you very much, you are helping me.
Greetings!


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:27 pm
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I'm puzzled by the headstock decal. The neck stamping looks right but the decal says just "Fender" with the patent numbers beneath it, but should say a bunch of other stuff like "Jazz Bass," "Trade Mark," "Electric Bass" and "Offset Contour Body." It says only, "FENDER." Since this likely was an export model maybe they used different decals? Still, I'd think it would at least say "Jazz Bass." In 1962 they said that and in '63 the other stuff started showing up. So I'd call the decal into question.

That is a very faded finish and I'm guessing doctored in some fashion. These finishes tend to flake off long before fading this badly. Someone will have to go over this one closely. If legitimate and you can authenticate it then it is worth a substantial price in the USA. Here one in excellent shape is a steal at 18,000 to 20,000 US Dollars. This one obviously is not excellent, but if authentic and it can be authenticated I'd expect it to bring 8,000 USD at least in the USA with covers and case. If legitimate I wouldn't take a penny less than $7,000 USD. It may be worth more in Romania than in the USA. Have no idea but usually they bring more in Europe. Or it might be a very good fake. I'm not thinking it is fake but the headstock decal really stands out and the finish doctoring needs to be looked into. The visible hallmarks look good other than the headstock decal. That really bugs me.


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:07 pm
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I've seen finish like that before from the guitar sitting in the sunlight for long periods of time. I'm not saying that's why it's so faded though.


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:41 am
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stroker vance wrote:
I've seen finish like that before from the guitar sitting in the sunlight for long periods of time. I'm not saying that's why it's so faded though.

Thank you all, you are helping me!


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:45 am
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brotherdave wrote:
I'm puzzled by the headstock decal. The neck stamping looks right but the decal says just "Fender" with the patent numbers beneath it, but should say a bunch of other stuff like "Jazz Bass," "Trade Mark," "Electric Bass" and "Offset Contour Body." It says only, "FENDER." Since this likely was an export model maybe they used different decals? Still, I'd think it would at least say "Jazz Bass." In 1962 they said that and in '63 the other stuff started showing up. So I'd call the decal into question.

That is a very faded finish and I'm guessing doctored in some fashion. These finishes tend to flake off long before fading this badly. Someone will have to go over this one closely. If legitimate and you can authenticate it then it is worth a substantial price in the USA. Here one in excellent shape is a steal at 18,000 to 20,000 US Dollars. This one obviously is not excellent, but if authentic and it can be authenticated I'd expect it to bring 8,000 USD at least in the USA with covers and case. If legitimate I wouldn't take a penny less than $7,000 USD. It may be worth more in Romania than in the USA. Have no idea but usually they bring more in Europe. Or it might be a very good fake. I'm not thinking it is fake but the headstock decal really stands out and the finish doctoring needs to be looked into. The visible hallmarks look good other than the headstock decal. That really bugs me.


Thank you very much for your true help. I hope it's legit, do you have any ideea where I can authenticate it in Romania? Or another answer would help me, I need an email address where can I contact Fender by email? Thank you once again!


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:03 am
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the Warwick bass forum-- some of the guys on there are Romanian. Or at least one is. I talked to him quite a bit when I went there. I'm part Romanian. My grandparents were born there. Anyway he will know where to take it to get it authenticated or he can hook you up.


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:20 am
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stroker vance wrote:
the Warwick bass forum-- some of the guys on there are Romanian. Or at least one is. I talked to him quite a bit when I went there. I'm part Romanian. My grandparents were born there. Anyway he will know where to take it to get it authenticated or he can hook you up.


Florin Barbu? He is in the city with me! :) That would be great if he can help me. Thank you all guys, still waiting for confirmation regarding the front of the body if it has original finish. Greetings!


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:01 pm
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Also I don't think contacting anyone at Fender via email or otherwise now is of much use on this. Read here: http://www.fender.com/support/articles/instrument-value/

People who fake instruments are VERY slick. There are some really good fakes out there. Usually only by really close personal inspection can someone who knows what hallmarks to check authenticate them. It takes looking at things like pickup solder joints on the pots. It is impossible to refinish an instrument without removing the electronics for example. It is also possible to put the electronics and neck from a 63 into a later body and then it becomes a parts bass.

One notable exception to the in-person inspection is George Gruhn at Gruhn Guitars who is very good at doing photo appraisals and widely considered to be the foremost authority on vintage stringed instruments in the world. He would possibly have the answer to the decal being different on an export Jazz question. While an appraisal from him costs money it also carries more weight in the collector community than anyone who is going to give you a free appraisal. You might want to give his appraisal page a look and see if his service and expertise would be worth it to you. Usually on a Pre-CBS era instrument even in poor to fair condition it is worth it. I'd say this one if original would range between fair to good. It would get closer to good with the original chrome bridge and pickup covers along with the original case.

On the plus side the pot codes match the neck date which also matches the serial. That's REAL good. The frets appear the right size, also good. What hardware is there looks about right to me. It appears to have clay marker dots, also good as these were used until 1964. At least one marker dot visible in the limited photos you posted seems to possibly have been replaced with a similar material or it may have aged or shrunk due sun exposure. (While they are called "clay" there is some dispute over what they really were made of, so I'm not going to reopen that can of worms here.) No mention is made of a case or the chrome pickup/bridge covers. Is there a factory case? If so that also needs to be checked too.

If emailing photos to George Gruhn for an online appraisal the photos should be well lit high resolution and include most if not all of these:
Closeups of the electronics as seen from behind the control plate the best you can without damaging any existing solder joints.
Closeup of the neck code on the paddle end, the serial on the neckplate.
The headstock front and back.
The body front and back.
The body end.
The neck joint pocket on the body with neck removed.
The pickup cavities best you can safely.
Closeups of all hardware such as tuners, chrome covers, bridge, strap buttons, closeup of frets, fret marker dots.
The entire neck front and back, the neck paddle front, butt and back with the neck removed with a closeup of the nut.
The pickguard front and back and the finger rest.
Closeups of one example of all screws including tuner, bridge, finger rest, pickguard, chrome cover and strap button screws including the HEAD of the screw.
Closeup photos of any hidden marks found in any body cavity.
Photos of the pickups with covers removed top/side and bottom with any writing on the bottom of the pickups in sharp focus.
Scans of any documentation regarding chain of ownership.
Photos of the original case in and out and front and back with hinges and latches if you have the case.

The better and more thorough the photos you send to George Gruhn, the more thorough and accurate appraisal you'll get back. I've been wrong before looking at mere photos, but the hallmarks I've seen other than the decal look right and I'm also curious about the absence of paint flaking, finish checking and play wear very often seen on a sunburst finish of this age that has been played as much as the fret wear and hardware wear and corrosion would indicate.


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:33 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
Also I don't think contacting anyone at Fender via email or otherwise now is of much use on this. Read here: http://www.fender.com/support/articles/instrument-value/

People who fake instruments are VERY slick. There are some really good fakes out there. Usually only by really close personal inspection can someone who knows what hallmarks to check authenticate them. It takes looking at things like pickup solder joints on the pots. It is impossible to refinish an instrument without removing the electronics for example. It is also possible to put the electronics and neck from a 63 into a later body and then it becomes a parts bass.

One notable exception to the in-person inspection is George Gruhn at Gruhn Guitars who is very good at doing photo appraisals and widely considered to be the foremost authority on vintage stringed instruments in the world. He would possibly have the answer to the decal being different on an export Jazz question. While an appraisal from him costs money it also carries more weight in the collector community than anyone who is going to give you a free appraisal. You might want to give his appraisal page a look and see if his service and expertise would be worth it to you. Usually on a Pre-CBS era instrument even in poor to fair condition it is worth it. I'd say this one if original would range between fair to good. It would get closer to good with the original chrome bridge and pickup covers along with the original case.

On the plus side the pot codes match the neck date which also matches the serial. That's REAL good. The frets appear the right size, also good. What hardware is there looks about right to me. It appears to have clay marker dots, also good as these were used until 1964. At least one marker dot visible in the limited photos you posted seems to possibly have been replaced with a similar material or it may have aged or shrunk due sun exposure. (While they are called "clay" there is some dispute over what they really were made of, so I'm not going to reopen that can of worms here.) No mention is made of a case or the chrome pickup/bridge covers. Is there a factory case? If so that also needs to be checked too.

If emailing photos to George Gruhn for an online appraisal the photos should be well lit high resolution and include most if not all of these:
Closeups of the electronics as seen from behind the control plate the best you can without damaging any existing solder joints.
Closeup of the neck code on the paddle end, the serial on the neckplate.
The headstock front and back.
The body front and back.
The body end.
The neck joint pocket on the body with neck removed.
The pickup cavities best you can safely.
Closeups of all hardware such as tuners, chrome covers, bridge, strap buttons, closeup of frets, fret marker dots.
The entire neck front and back, the neck paddle front, butt and back with the neck removed with a closeup of the nut.
The pickguard front and back and the finger rest.
Closeups of one example of all screws including tuner, bridge, finger rest, pickguard, chrome cover and strap button screws including the HEAD of the screw.
Closeup photos of any hidden marks found in any body cavity.
Photos of the pickups with covers removed top/side and bottom with any writing on the bottom of the pickups in sharp focus.
Scans of any documentation regarding chain of ownership.
Photos of the original case in and out and front and back with hinges and latches if you have the case.

The better and more thorough the photos you send to George Gruhn, the more thorough and accurate appraisal you'll get back. I've been wrong before looking at mere photos, but the hallmarks I've seen other than the decal look right and I'm also curious about the absence of paint flaking, finish checking and play wear very often seen on a sunburst finish of this age that has been played as much as the fret wear and hardware wear and corrosion would indicate.


Thank you, just sent an email to George Gruhn asking for the costs of the appraisal for the bass. Thank you once again, greetings!
Any good sites where to try to sell the bass (except eBay)? Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: 1963 Fender Jazz Bass - HELP ME PLEASE!!!
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:37 pm
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In your situation and your location it is going to be interesting.

In your situation, depending on the appraisal, you might come out ahead and sell faster by placing the instrument on consignment through George Gruhn or other noted vintage dealer. He gets a commission of course. I just don't know what the vintage market is like there so I can't say for sure that you should do that. Selling one in a private sale can often take far longer than a consignment sale through a vintage dealer.

This sort of sale is permissible through talkbass. However some people are uncomfortable dealing internationally on such a major purchase while a noted vintage dealer acting as middle man makes things seem to go faster. I will also list select vintage instruments offered for sale by private individuals on my website at no charge, but haven't listed any lately as nobody has asked.


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