It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:19 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:50 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 5
I am shopping for a new bass, 5 string, local shop explained that fender's guitars have the grafite support rods installed because it maintains complete sound across the neck and the notes don't "fall off" as you are playing... I took this as being "new tech" and have been using this as a "measuring stick" to look for a new bass.. I seem to have ran into a stumbling block with this mindset... very few basses have this "new tech"... even fender, does not have them in their more or most expensive bass... Please explain the differences....


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:29 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Questions like this call for only one person to give the right answer...........Brother Dave !!! ...... :) He'd give you a better detailed answer than I could..


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:54 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 5
when does brother Dave normally login?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:38 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Hard to say....... but he will post a comment in the next day or two... there's also Oxfan, Stroker Vance & Rev J .....all of them give good advise. You can also Find post regarding Graphite rods if you search this blog... it's a topic that's been often discussed here but in a nutshell Graphite rods were introduced in 1995 they basically help keep the neck stable, ...I think Warwick also uses Graphite rods in their basses but don't quote me on this.......... Fender doesn't use
Graphite rods in their vintage models including the Jaco Pastorius Fretless probably because their going for that old school authenticity in the 50's, 60's & 70's Re-issues & they also Don't use Graphite Rods in Mexican & Japanese models ........... I have 6 Fender basses,...only 1 of them (my 2011 American Deluxe Jazz 5) has Posiflex graphite rods in the neck,...... I love the neck on my Jazz 5 & I also love the necks on my Jaco , Geddy , & Marcus Miller basses ....... I've also have been lucky enough to not have any Neck issues with any of my basses......... that's the best I can explain it but I'm sure the Guys will be leaving useful posts regarding this topic in the next couple of days... :)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:09 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 5
Of all your basses, which one do you play the most? I have used several different bass in the past, Fender precision, Gibson grabber, Gibson EB3 (I loved this bass... sold it to a teenager in 70 along with my Vox amp.. they were just getting started, I was in the military, FT Bragg)... Peavey 5 string, Pony, and Yamaha... I fell in love with an ESP/LTD 1005.... Like the feel and play of it over the Fender but the graffite rod keeps me from going further...
I am afraid to venture too fall into different brands due to dependablity.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:44 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
I've always believed you should play what ever bass feels & sounds good to you, ......the bass I play the most is my 2009 Marcus Miller Jazz Bass .....this bass has the Bullet truss rod that's accessed at the Head Stock ......this bass is modeled after a 1977 Jazz Bass,...
I play the the rest of my basses equally...... in other words I'll usually play the Marcus bass every day & one of my other basses,......... For the longest time my Geddy Lee Jazz bass was my go to bass, I'm also Currently playing My Reggie Hamiltion Jazz bass a lot ......it's got an active/ Passive P/J setup & it also has a D-tuner .......... this bass is a blast to play & is also a recent purchase so there's still a bit of a honeymoon period going on.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:06 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:59 am
Posts: 156
Location: California
Personally, I don't think that graphite rods in the neck should be a deal-breaker. I don't have any basses with graphite reinforcement. I would err on the side of a bass feeling and playing good - oh yeah, sounding good too of course! You could get a bass without graphite that would easily surpass a clunker or even average new one with. Especially if you have personally played the actual instrument you like.

BTW, I like your past basses - Fender Gibson etc. - I've got some Gibsons, some Rickenbackers, Alembic, Guild, but I've always had a soft-spot for Fender Japan... (Actually, Fender Japan is using graphite reinforcing rods in the new Bass VI reissue - not the "pawnshop" one - but my Fender Japan '96 Bass VI reissues has no neck issues even though it doesn't have graphite reinforcement)

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:09 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:01 am
Posts: 2842
I think I may have heard that some people think the graphite rods hinder sound. I have them in some basses and they don't bother me. However my best sounding basses (IMO) do not have the rods. But we'll wait for Bro Dave - he knows. :)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:11 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Yeah I never given a second thought with regard to whether a Bass has Graphite Rods or not,....... I've been playing Bass since 1978 & the only bass that I've ever owned with Graphite Rods is my 2011 American Deluxe Jazz 5 ......... & as I said earlier I've never had a bass that's had a neck issue (knock on wood)............ Don't feel you're getting less of a bass if it doesn't have Graphite rods.....


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:29 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 5
That was about to be my thoughts on the graphite rod... I think it is more of a dealer selling point than a product breaker... I have been to a lot of stores lately trying to get the feel of the one I want, I have always thought you get what you pay for ... price wise.. I am playing a Yamaha 4 string and the setup on it is great, nice sound and feel... I use a Fender 350 amp, and flat wound strings, ... I got spoiled on the flat wound when I first started in the 60's with the EB3, playing 5 and 6 nights a week, strings were tough on my fingers, lots of rocknroll, jazz, very little country... Now we put the ole group back together and play alot of benefits, etc. ... I want to get my last bass, and I think I want a 5 string again... had a Peavy 5, but it was the bass I preferred, I used a inexpensive Yamaha, which I played in church mostly and on the road with an evangelist... I think I am leaning towards the fender jazz, mainly because of the more slender neck.. although they say the precision has slimmed down since the one I bought back in the 60's ... didn't like it because the neck was too wide for me.. I really appreciate all the good comments and the different basses that you all use ... thanks


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:08 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 10760
Location: Athens, Greece
I had a Yamaha RBX350 which had a graphite reinforcement truss rod.

Image

After having multiple intonation problems with the bridge and the neck I finally exchanged that bass for an Epiphone Explorer Bass.

I've put some Lace Sensors and recapped the neck with a birdseye laminated fretboard.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:48 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
srholden wrote:
I think I am leaning towards the fender jazz, mainly because of the more slender neck.. although they say the precision has slimmed down since the one I bought back in the 60's ... didn't like it because the neck was too wide for me.. I really appreciate all the good comments and the different basses that you all use ... thanks


Thanks srholden ...... glad we could help,... if it's a slim neck you're looking for check out a Geddy Lee Jazz Bass & if you decide to go with a precision bass check out the American Standard P Bass ....this P Bass has a nice neck & if you want a bit of both worlds get a bass with a P/J setup & check out The American Deluxe P Bass or the Reggie Hamilton Jazz Bass also with P/J setup ... & as I posted earlier, ...it's a fun bass to play & it's also a versatile swiss army knife of basses ,it also has a nice slim neck, & is bacically a Hot Rodded 1967 Jazz Bass (modeled after Reggie Hamilton's modified 1967 Jazz bass.) Good Luck & keep up posted.. :)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:42 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
By limiting yourself to necks with graphite reinforcement you are taking most instruments out of the mix. It is interesting to note that the most coveted, most valuable and most collectible Fender basses of all time do not have graphite reinforced necks. I only have had one Fender bass with such a neck and sold it off a few years ago.

Graphite reinforcement adds stability and strength to the neck and contributes to a more even distribution of tension. The primary intention of the reinforcement is to add neck stability. This allows you to use higher tension strings and keeps your neck more stable so that fewer seasonal adjustments are needed to truss rod tension.

The addition of graphite rods also minutely changes the mass of the neck which is why their presence contributes also to the reduction of obvious dead spots. More accurately by increasing the mass the dead spots move to a different location.

On many instruments with dead spot issues these are most often found on the 5th to 7th fret of the first (G) string on a 4 string bass. Some of them have dead spots and even deader spots with multiple frets having diminished sustain . The most common dead spot is the 5th fret of the "G" string on a P-Bass. When fretted at the dead spot a fretted note won't sustain as long as notes fretted elsewhere. This is due to the resonant frequency of the neck causing a cancellation of the fretted note's sustain sort of like a phase inversion.

You can move the dead spot to a semitone location by adding or removing mass to the headstock. This means swapping out stock tuners for ultra-light tuners or adding weight. I've heard of some pretty creative weighting that is a permanent mod such as embedding tungsten weights into the wood of the headstock concealed under the baseplates of the tuners.

Some devices, such as the Fat Finger device claim to "eliminate" dead spots by adding mass. What these devices actually do is add extra mass to the neck when clipped onto the headstock. The added mass causes the resonant frequency to change which means that the dead spot moves elsewhere. The intention of these weights is to move the dead spot to a semi-tone or even completely out of fretted territory but sometimes they move the dead note to an even less desirable location. By relocating the device to a different point on the headstock you can often move the dead spot completely off the fretboard or to a semi-tone so that the dead spot is either above or below the pitch of any of the fretted notes. Mass enhancement and reduction does work but takes some trial and error.

The fact that the graphite rods add more mass to the neck is a bonus of sorts. The primary intention for them is to make the neck more stable, not to eliminate dead spots. Theoretically every stringed instrument neck is going to have a dead spot somewhere. It is best to find one with the dead spot out of the range of fretted play in the first place.

It is interesting to note that the amount of tension on the truss rod also impacts the severity of a dead spot. So does temperature and humidity!

Dead spot elimination is not usually addressed in a typical setup and their chasing and exorcism can be quite time consuming.

Neck-through and headless basses have different resonant frequencies than a bolt on neck with a typical headstock and don't seem to be as afflicted.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:11 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 10760
Location: Athens, Greece
@brotherdave

I dislike the heel mounted truss rod access, I prefer adjusting the graphite support rods from the headstock.

It is doable?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: grafite support rods
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:42 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
I think technically yes, but Fender chooses to use the headstock access on the MIM and import basses. The graphite necks are very stable and do not require frequent adjustments. I too prefer headstock access.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: