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Post subject: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:24 pm
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I recently bought a used 2006 Jaco artist bass, not the custom shop model. I honestly hadn't played one before, they are pretty rare in my neck of the woods. The bass plays absolutely fantastic but the pickups do not sound very Jaco like. I got a better Jaco tone out of my old Ibanez BTB 676.

I am wondering is somebody swapped the pickups out or if this is normal. I shielded the pickups (something Fender refuses to do) and everything appeared to be stock when I took it apart. They don't have that nasal-y component of Jaco's bass, they almost sound scooped.

Before you mention it, I have the neck epoxied and rotosound 66's on it, with a nice low action.

So anybody got lots of experiences with these, is this normal? My rig is a markbass through an epifani so it isn't a mid heavy setup, but I have a roland microcube that emulates an old acoustic 360/1 pretty well and even through that it doesn't really sound like Jaco.

Thanks in advance!!


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:54 pm
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First check what type of tone cap is there. Should be a ceramic disc. Anything else isn't going to give you the Jaco type sound. It should look LIKE THIS:

Image

It should NOT look like any of these:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Does it LOOK like someone swapped pickups before you got it? Or do the solder joints look factory original? You usually can tell.


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:00 pm
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Do you have both pick ups wide open ? Jaco favored the bridge pick up with the neck pick up opened about a quarter of the way......this works for me on my Jaco bass.

You say you're using Swing Bass 66 strings,....I'm not sure but I thought Jaco used Rotosound Jass 77 Flatwound Bass strings because the Swing Bass 66 strings were chewing up his fret board,.......I use Fender Flats on mine but I'm thinking about putting DR Low Riders on my Jaco bass next time I change the strings... :)


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:20 pm
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Yeah, the caps and wiring were old school. Cloth wire and brass plates lining the pickup and control cavity, the brass plates were soldered to anchored metal plates in the body. I have never worked on old school stuff and had never seen shielding attempts like this, pretty neat but obviously doesn't do spit to stop hum. Nothing looked to be changed, everything looked factory.

Yes I do have the bridge pickup pretty well soloed. Jaco used rounds to get his signature tone, he used epoxy to hold off the wear although it does wear down as well. Jaco practiced on fretted but played on fretless for this reason. He might have used flats but he was famous for rounds. I switched over to some TI flats I got with the bass today just to save my own neck for a little longer.

For the record, the bass does sound great. I took it to jam tonight and there is nothing like a Fender to just pour tone out of it (once shielded), my band mates were pleased. Just not a very Jaco like tone to it.


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:34 pm
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fritzpso wrote:
For the record, the bass does sound great. I took it to jam tonight and there is nothing like a Fender to just pour tone out of it (once shielded), my band mates were pleased. Just not a very Jaco like tone to it.

Have you tried using an Octaver & a Chorus.... They really complement the Jaco Fretless
I use MXR Bass stomp boxes.....Jaco was known to use a Chorus..


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:46 am
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I have to say I agree with your ears.
I have a Jaco and I love it but it does have more of a scooped sound, stock without a chorus or any effects.
I have a Squier VM fretless with ebanol neck that, IMO, sounds more 'Jaco-ish' with way more 'mwah', if you know what I mean. I did put Bartolinis in the Squier though. I thought it was the ebanol neck of the Squier that was giving me that sound so I was considering epoxy on the board.
I think in your case a pickup change if chosen carefully will get you closer to the sound in your head.
And BTW, I use Rotosound 66s on my Jaco.
Jo


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:03 am
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James : Jaco did that with delay, if you get a tight delay it gives a chorus like effect. He never used chorus pedals. Jaco did use MXR from what I know, I am more of a Boss guy. Were octave pedals even in existence at the time of Jaco? I know he never used one on anything notable, I haven't listened to much obscure stuff.


Jazzbassjo : Thanks for confirming it, that puts my mind at ease. I also have the Squier VM fretless (I had to re-radius my fretboard on it, all the ones I have seen required it, did you have to do yours out of curiosity) I find it has a more Jaco like tone but the Seymour Designed pickups leave a LOT to be desired (not terrible after they get shielded but far from great), I am selling it instead of putting more effort into it. I really want to try rounds on it, I hear the ebonol holds up well, but since I am selling it I want it as pristine as possible. I might consider a pickup swap for the Jaco but I won't be considering it any time soon. I want to keep it stock for a while.


Thanks to all for the response!! I really appreciate the help!


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:40 am
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I have not had to re-radius the board but it honestly does not get much play since the Jaco moved in :wink:
The Bartolinis sound better than the Seymore Duncan.
As far as the pickup upgrades, I get where your coming from....the bass does sound good on its own. Just not as Jaco-esque as I would have thought. I will probably not upgrade mine too soon.

So where and how much did the epoxy job run you? I like to keep one fretless with flats and one with rounds. I really like rounds on the Jaco and rather not worry too much about the board wearing (and it will!). That is why I consider epoxy. Actually I can see some wear on the Squier from the Rotosound 66s on there!


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:12 pm
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I have de-fretted my own neck and attempted to do my own epoxy but I couldn't keep the fretboard radius proper.

This particular Jaco had the epoxy done by HG Thor ( http://www.woodwiz.com/epoxy/ ) who is considered one of the best in the game, that is part of the reason I bought it. I have heard he charges $375 for the job (it does take a lot of man time) but the kicker is that his wait list is 2 years long. I would be very wary of getting this done by somebody who does not have a great reputation. I so far enjoy it more but I haven't had the bass long. I haven't spent enough time with rounds on it for fear of damage but it sounds great with them.


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 am
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Here's my take on it:

First someone mentioned coating the fretboard. It's a good Idea and I've done it myself. Jaco used Petit's Poly-Poxy which is available at any boat supply store. He used about 7 coats of it letting each one dry. Saying it roundwound strings won't do damage is a myth. The rounds will wear the epoxy not the fretboard. When I did mine I used marine grade fiberglass resin. Very hard and does the job in one coat. There are some obvious maintenance things you'll need to do after that. Depending on how much you use is about every 6 months to a year you'll need to sand the string grooves out of the finish (fairly easy and not as destructive as it sounds). And every couple of years you'll probably need to put a fresh coat on. This really is an easy thing to do and unlike a fret job you really don't need to go to a professional to do it. I did it when I was in my 20's myself.

Second. So it doesn't sound like Jaco. Big deal. Does it sound good? There is the answer in your holy grail search for tone. I have a Steve Bailey Jazz Bass and guess what it doesn't sound like Steve Bailey. I could probably plug it into a TC electronic amp with the same settings Steve uses the pick-up selection and tone settings on the bass and still not sound a damn thing like him.

Just for a quick demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BZERP4x0s

Before the camera even pans over you can tell who the bass player by his tone. It looks to me almost like he's playing a Fretted Jaydee like Mark King rocked in the 80's (probably borrowed) and the only amp's I see on stage are Peavys. You can mod the crap out of that Jaco Jazz Bass, you can change the capacitors, you can coat the fretboard, you can solo the bridge pickup you can break it a couple of times and glue it back together you can do anything you want to that bass and it still won't sound like Jaco. It will sound like you.

So it all breaks down to point one "Does it sound Good?" At the end of the day that's all that matters.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:20 pm
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Rev J wrote:
Here's my take on it:

First someone mentioned coating the fretboard. It's a good Idea and I've done it myself. Jaco used Petit's Poly-Poxy which is available at any boat supply store. He used about 7 coats of it letting each one dry. Saying it roundwound strings won't do damage is a myth. The rounds will wear the epoxy not the fretboard. When I did mine I used marine grade fiberglass resin. Very hard and does the job in one coat. There are some obvious maintenance things you'll need to do after that. Depending on how much you use is about every 6 months to a year you'll need to sand the string grooves out of the finish (fairly easy and not as destructive as it sounds). And every couple of years you'll probably need to put a fresh coat on. This really is an easy thing to do and unlike a fret job you really don't need to go to a professional to do it. I did it when I was in my 20's myself.

Second. So it doesn't sound like Jaco. Big deal. Does it sound good? There is the answer in your holy grail search for tone. I have a Steve Bailey Jazz Bass and guess what it doesn't sound like Steve Bailey. I could probably plug it into a TC electronic amp with the same settings Steve uses the pick-up selection and tone settings on the bass and still not sound a damn thing like him.

Just for a quick demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BZERP4x0s

Before the camera even pans over you can tell who the bass player by his tone. It looks to me almost like he's playing a Fretted Jaydee like Mark King rocked in the 80's (probably borrowed) and the only amp's I see on stage are Peavys. You can mod the crap out of that Jaco Jazz Bass, you can change the capacitors, you can coat the fretboard, you can solo the bridge pickup you can break it a couple of times and glue it back together you can do anything you want to that bass and it still won't sound like Jaco. It will sound like you.

So it all breaks down to point one "Does it sound Good?" At the end of the day that's all that matters.

C/S,
Rev J


WAIT! I'm supposed to sound just like Marcus Miller when that Marcus signature order comes in from Fender. You mean I won't?
:lol: :lol: :lol: Ha-Ha-Ha
Sorry for that outburst..just cracked myself up there for a minute.

Rev I whole-heartedly agree. Tone comes from your hands and brain for the majority but..
Fender put out the Geddy Lee sig and IMO somehow made that bass sound more growly/biting with an emphasis on the higher registers of the,for lack of a better term, bass guitar. Similar to the earlier Rush bass sound.
The Jaco sig sounds very good, no question but I kinda thought it might be a little more
'mid-rangey' out of the box. Still killer though!

And Rev, I am way impressed that you epoxied your axe. I am too worried I might mess up my neck. Maybe if I get more courage! More power to ya. Do you think it changed the tone at all? And do you do side work??!? (half-kidding).

Thanks for sharing your experience,

JB-Jo


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:39 pm
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Well when they put a dead guy's name on a product that he cannot contribute to I would think they would want it to be something he would be proud of. I have heard plenty of players on the CS model and it sounds extremely like Jaco without a pickup swap. The person who first mention the epoxied board was me, my board is epoxied, I had roundwounds on it, I had it set extremely low causing lots of "mwah", still didn't sound anything like Jaco and it doesn't seem as though you can get it to actually sound like Jaco without a pickup swap.

I am aware tone is in my fingers, but there is an inherent mid range bump in Jaco's tone that cannot be added by fingers (or anybody else's for that matter) and is much better replicated by many other basses that do not bear his name. I would expect the bass they put his name on it to sound like him, at least to be EQ'd to same voicing. Jaco has a tone that can be distinguished a mile away whereas Marcus Miller and many other greats have a less distinct tone they have more distinct playing styles, not everybody could pick Marcus out of a lineup, if it wasn't Jaco you would know it is a clone. I actually find the Geddy bass quite close to Geddy's tone, although you slap a badass with a maple neck and you will get pretty close.

As I said I liked the tone fine, but I was expecting a Jaco styled tone out a bass with his name on it. I really don't think that is too bizarre of an expectation. I am not in denial about wanting to be a Jaco clone, I really enjoy that mid rangey tone, which is what I was expecting from the bass and was disappointed in that regard.


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:34 pm
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I don't think it unreasonable for Fender to make that sig sound a little closer to Jaco's tone like the Geddy's similarity to Geddy's tone.
As far as that 'burpy' Jaco tone goes..and I hope I don't offend anyone....but I really do not like it. Some recordings sound real nice ("Continuum" from "Trio of Doom") other just sound like all bridge pickup with the tone set completely to bass. Like muffled mid-range. Just my opinion and obviously in the minority.
Love the mwah but more opened up with the tone control.

Jo


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:34 pm
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I didn't see (unless I missed it ) anyone mention Jacos' amp. It had alot to do with the scooped deal. It had an 18" spkr. And he used Roto 66 strings- I think that's all they had back in the 70's. They were like $40 !! Back then that was really expensive. To hear Jaco live was a bit different than alot of the recordings I've heard. I think the 8:30 live album gets a good representation of his real sound. In a small club that amp filled the room balls to the walls. You could hear the roundwound ring gut sound really well.


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Post subject: Re: Jaco Artist Bass doesn't sound like Jaco...
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:06 am
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8:30 Live is a great Album, I believe Jaco used Acoustic360 & Acoustic 361 amps during his Weather Report days http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/bin/ ... eamp360usa
http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/bin/ ... inet361usa

& later used Harke canbinets in the 1980's(not sure what amp Head he used during this period). I have both the Jaco Fretless & Geddy Lee Jazz bass, I love 'em both as is & wouldn't change a thing on them.


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