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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:06 am
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Runnerman wrote:
Excellent information here and the links to the factory tour are also great.
This clears up many misconceptions I have seen stated on other boards.
Thank you!



Runner . . . .
IMHO, I am not convinced the presented material "clears up" the "Fender Wood" issue
eagerly discussed elsewhere. I feel one side is presented and more than a decade ago.
What Brother Dave presented is great for the context presented, IMHO, but Gretsch,
Takimine, Jackson, Charvel, MIJ Fender, MIM Fender, MIK Fender will all have something
to say about that in 2012. Plus, competitors would LOVE to get ahold of proof of wood
distributation practices to use against Fender.


Most of the presented info is good, interesting, but old, second hand and I'm sure Fender
withheld what they wanted. The links definitely make one not ever want to purchase
MIMexico guitars as MIM gets the entire Corona/USA rejects, as good as the rejects are.

Also, 1999-2001 does not represent the 2012 era Fender is in.


From Wiki:
Squier was a string manufacturer subsequently acquired by Fender. The Squier brand has been used by Fender since 1982 to market inexpensive variants of Fender guitars intended to compete with the rise of Stratocaster copies, as the Stratocaster was slowly becoming more popular. Squier guitars have been manufactured in Japan, Korea, Mexico, India, Indonesia, China, and the United States of America. The Squier name adorns many inexpensive guitars based on Fender designs but with generally cheaper hardware, bridges and electronics.

In recent years, Fender Musical Instruments Corporation has branched out into making and selling steel-string acoustic guitars, and has purchased a number of other instrument firms, including the Guild Guitar Company, the Sunn Amplifier Company, and other brands such as SWR Sound Corporation. In early 2003, Fender Musical Instruments Corporation made a deal with Gretsch and began manufacturing and distributing new Gretsch guitars. Fender also owns: Jackson, Charvel, Olympia, Orpheum, Tacoma Guitars (based in Seattle, WA), Squier and Brand X amps. The Californian guitar giant has recently purchased Kaman Music Corporation, which owns Ovation acoustic guitars, LP and Toca hand percussion products, Gibraltar Hardware, Genz Benz Amplification, Hamer Guitars and is the exclusive U.S. sales representative for Sabian Cymbals and exclusive worldwide distributor of Takamine Guitars and Gretsch Drums."




I truly think that Fender DOES NOT SELECT ALL THE BEST WOOD for their USA guitars.
I say ALL FENDER Guitars get good wood. Why would supplers sell Fender medium or poor wood :?:
Fender cannot afford the reputation that Gretsch or Takamine or Jackson or Charvel or Squire or Guild
get second rate wood. Absolutely no way. All factories get good wood.

For sure within each product line or guitars that have wood grain showing or the
highest priced guitars within each factory or guitar line . . . there will be wood selection.

I bet Fender buys all the best wood possible and gets it to all factories.

So, I believe that the way Fender was run during the CBS era, during the 1980s/1990s,
is not the same way wood is inspected, purchased, selected and decided upon as in 2012.

What do you say :?:

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:44 am
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A couple of points in reply....

A lot depends on your definition of the word "reject". In some situations reject means that the item is good or bad. In the case of wood grading, that is not the case. If you are familiar with wood production, you will know that grading of wood into various categories occurs all through the process from the log to the guitar body blank. There are highly paid people throughout the industry that do nothing by grading. The reason for this is to maximize profit along the supply chain. Better wood is separated because it brings a higher price. Why does it bring a higher price? Many factors, but mainly because it is more desireable for certain purposes. As much as we want to think that guitar manufacturing should use the absolute highest level grade woods, that is simply not the case. In the continuum of wood grading, mass produced guitar wood is probably midway through the grade spectrum. The highest level "guitar body wood" grade would likely be "rejected" by a high end furniture manufacturer. This obviously does not mean the wood is bad by any means. It is part of a sophisticated sorting process. To sum up, "rejected" does not mean bad in the wood grading world. Unfortunately there are people that get hung up on the word and use it to justify their own purposes. An educated person rejects (no pun intended) this presupposition.

Secondly, when I mentioned that it cleared up many misconceptions mentioned in board discussions, I was not considering wood grading. I was thinking of manufacturing location for various components at various times as well as wood types and multipiece options. You are right some of this is old information but relevent to me nonetheless.

Cheers.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:24 am
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We are talking the same with some different ways of thinking . . . . .

Imagine the 50 lines of Fender USA guitars from super high custom shop
down to the lowest USA grade and all that for all the lines of Strats, Teles
Jags, Jazzm's Mustangs P-Bass, J-Bass, etc.

Then, as mentioned in my earlier post, all the differnet international "Fender" factories.
Then, as mentioned in my earliier post, all of the differnt companies and brand names
that are NOT FENDER.

Ultimately, were are discussing 100s of lines of guitars.
Each guitar line is better or is worse than the line next to it.
There is only one best line of guitars and only one lowest priced line of guitars.

All other guitars are inbetween and are in-line to get different levels of wood?
Don't think so.

Another idea is that every plant/factory gets its own shipments and sorts at that point.


[b]I can see and feel good about most of what is said.
What I do not feel good is that one plant gets the rejected wood from another plant.


Maybe all plant's rejected wood is still good, but MAYBE all plants send their rejected wood
Squireville and STARcaster City, etc.

Anyway, food for fodder :lol: [/b]

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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:04 pm
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Toppscore, Amp questions might be better served in the bass amp forum.

Fender has produced two bass modeling amps that I recall. The 30 watt 1x10 B-Dec which is discontinued and the current 40 Watt Bronco 40. I've never owned either but have demo'ed them.

Both of these Fender modeling bass amps have their fan clubs. There was quite a bit of consternation when the B-Dec was discontinued, because the operational platform was totally changed for the Bronco 40, which has been well received by all except the B-Dec devotees. The B-Dec might have been one of the best, if not in fact the very best, home bass practice platforms ever and a capable recording workstation to boot. Obviously if you play in a live situation both amps fall short in the power department which means that unless you patch out to a bass capable PA or a larger bass amp neither has enough power for serious gigging. But for recording either one is an affordable and quite versatile solution. In fact the Bronco even ships with Ableton Live 8 Lite software included!

All Line 6 amps so far that I know about have been all solid state. It seems for all the world as if Line 6 is abandoning bass amplification completely. The first to go was the HD750 head a couple of years back, but recently other Line 6 bass products have been in very short supply. Even the venerable Bass Pod emulation interfaces are missing in action at dealers.

For example if you go by online availability, the Line 6 bass combos seem to no longer be shipping to dealers who have either dropped them completely or only offer factory refurbished or "restock" units at about the same price or even more than a new one cost a year ago. However all the models they ever made except the HD750, are still listed as active on the Line 6 website. So I'm not sure if this is a supply/retooling/redesign issue of some sort or if they are in fact abandoning the bass arena completely. If they have new models of bass products, including a new Bass Pod, they probably would have announced them by now and they haven't. The Variax guitar line was revived recently but there are no new Variax bass models this time, at least so far.

Meanwhile Line 6 has introduced their popular but very pricey wireless instrument and wireless microphone systems that have been very hot sellers and consistently get glowing reviews. Their G30 is the best selling wireless guitar system on Amazon and is outselling any Shure system which was the previous top selling quality wireless guitar system. Their G50 is the highest rated wireless guitar system on Amazon where again Shure reigned as the leader for years.

Unless there is a new Line 6 bass amp line in the offing it appears that for now at least Line 6 is abandoning the bass amp and emulation interface business entirely, which is sort of a shame. While their larger high powered combos (LD150 and up) are quite heavy, they sound really good. I'm a Line 6 user and other than the weight of the bigger combos I could not find much to complain about when compared to any other all solid state bass rigs.

As far as reviews go, most of the basses I use are no longer in production or parts basses and I'm only going to write reviews about gear I actually own and use. A review of the MarkBass Compressore is overdue probably and I need to get on that. Reviewing an out of production product would have little value except to a used gear shopper. The one instrument model I own (a Fender) that is still in production has been reviewed to death and I really have nothing to add that hasn't been said better by thousands of others and mine has been modded and I can barely remember what it was like when new.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:16 pm
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Thanks, Brother Dave.
Just going with the flow.

Thanks for you Fender wood share and your Bass guitar info
and you Line-6 share. Take care. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:47 pm
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Nah. Fender gets some bad wood, just like all production guitar companies. Some lemons sneak their way in. I've played a couple older Precisions that were way off balance. The neck actually weighed more than the body on them. One was a '74, which was stock, and the other a new 2004 Highway One. Felt like the body was made of cork. It wasn't just neck dive.

Some "beginner level" guitars can end up with some good maple. You should see my niece's Affinity Strat. Extremely stiff quartersawn, with figured rosewood cap. Good job on the frets, even.

They do sort the wood. That's part of the reason guitar companies also build in other countries, isn't it? I don't think they have a whole lotta time to be picky, though. They can't just throw that much wood away. Japan probably has their own wood supply. Fender Japan does a way better job with hiding the glued pieces of body wood. Their machines are also a bit more accurate with the pickup routings, heel/body joint. Mexican Fenders are typically sloppier in fit and finish, compared to MIA, MIJ, and Made in China guitars. 20 years of observation tells me this. So yeah, Fender Mexico gets the hand me downs. Then there's FSR Mexico. They're giving you a taste of the high life, in hopes of you buying MIA later on.

The whole international Fender chain is set up the way it should be. All skill levels are priced accordingly. You work your way up as you learn/succeed.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:58 pm
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Fender gets some bad wood ~ NO WAY!!! :shock:

just like all production guitar companies ~ ALL EXCEPT FENDER!!! :D

Some lemons sneak their way in ~ NOT AT FENDER - BLASPHEMY! THIS CANNOT HAPPEN :shock:

I've played a couple older Precisions that were way off balance ~
WERE YOU DRINKING :?: WHAT DID THE HIGHWAY PATROL SAY 8)

The neck actually weighed more than the body ~ DO MORE LEFT-ARM CURLS :lol:

FENDER IS PERFECT :mrgreen:
MISTAKES ARE THE USERS FAULTS :wink:

LIFE IS GOOD. I AM NOT A FENDER HOMER. The Jazz Bass IS BETTER than the P-Bass :shock:
The SF Giants and Oakland A's will meet in October's World Series.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:50 am
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Toppscore wrote:


Since this is a Fender Forum, I am really interested if Fender offers amps
that compete directly with the modeling features of the Line-6 Amps?

Are all of the Line-6 modeling amps solid state?
Do or can tube amps provide the modeling that Line-6 offers?
Or, is solid state the only option for modeling amps.

Thanks for your response(s). Toppscore 8)


Answering the rest of this question which I overlooked. Based on what little I know about it, it is theoretically possible utilizing an onboard processing section to put emulation into a tube amp. Most players with tube gear want very little processing other than perhaps some outboard compression and even that isn't used as much as with a solid state amp since tube amps offer a bit of innate compression anyway.

Most of the reason for using emulation is to make a solid state amp sound more like a tube amp. If you have a tube amp the entire emulation section would be redundant tone-wise in most cases. Even though it is possible I'm doubtful there is much of a market for it, and so far as I know there is no such product currently on the market.

If you seek emulation in a tube amp you can just go outboard with a Line 6 Bass Pod or floor Pod. You can pick one up used pretty cheap right now and plug it into your Super Bassman. Also Behringer makes an even less expensive emulator product called a V-AMP in a number of different configurations. Fun toys, especially for recording.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:30 am
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Hi. Great stuff. Thanks, Brother Dave.
Via you and this thread, I have been fully introduced to Line-6 guitars & amps & pods.
Of course, I have heard of Line-6, before.

Question regarding the Fender Supersonic 60w or 100w amps.
They have two modes: Burn & Vintage.
The Vintage has options for Bassman or Vibroverb.
The Burn is more of a gain channel.

Speaking of emulation modes being more of a solid-state function
and the fact that the 60w has ten tubes and the 100w has 13 tubes . . . . .

Do you feel that all of the Supersonic tone/voicing options are
entirely from tube based circuitry/electronics?

Or, is there some level of Solid State circuitry/electronics that
manage or help manage the tones/voicing options?

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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:58 am
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Toppscore, PLEASE go to the amp forum and start a new thread about any future amp questions there.

The Supersonics are guitar amps and fairly irrelevant to discussion of Fender Jazz Bass body materials.

The Supersonics are all tube. They utilize a time tested form of channel switching which results in different levels of signal drive into the secondary stage of the preamp section. In the past this has been called clean and overdrive channels. Now they call them vintage and burn channels. Just new marketing terms for clean and overdrive channels. Same principals, different names.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Jazz Bass - Body Materials
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:23 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Toppscore, PLEASE go to the amp forum and start a new thread about any future amp questions there.

The Supersonics are guitar amps and fairly irrelevant to discussion of Fender Jazz Bass body materials.

The Supersonics are all tube. They utilize a time tested form of channel switching which results in different levels of signal drive into the secondary stage of the preamp section. In the past this has been called clean and overdrive channels. Now they call them vintage and burn channels. Just new marketing terms for clean and overdrive channels. Same principals, different names.



Thanks.

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