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Post subject: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:39 pm
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Hi there,

I've just joined this forum while trying to find out if there are known problems with shielding and grounding on the American Deluxe basses with active electronics.

I have a brand new 2011 American Deluxe Jazz V. I love this bass, but the noise has gotten me to the point of returning it. Comparing it to my kid's new MIM Jazz and several other basses I own (active and not), the Deluxe is the only one with the problem. (It's not the cables or the amps)

I seem to have found a solution on a TalkBass thread here http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/american-deluxe-jazz-pbass-ground-hum-noise-problem-solved-802153/#post11977129 , if anyone is interested.

Frankly I'm surprised that a company like Fender has such obvious problems with their high end basses.

Hoping to get mine fixed soon.

thanks,
Terri

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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:20 pm
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Hi there Girl on Bass (& fellow Vancouverite) :D
I also have a 2011 American Deluxe Jazz Bass V (bought it at the Downtown Vancouver Long & McQuade back in May 2011)
I also had a little bit of hum when I was in active mode (my bass is very quiet in passive mode) mind you the hum I was getting was minor compared to the problems other posters have had. I've heard that this hum issue is a hit & miss thing ......in other words if you had 5 American Deluxe Jazz basses in front of you maybe 1 or 2 basses would have this issue.......I got lucky & picked up an American Deluxe Jazz V in A1 condition... it had been in the store a few days before I bought it.

I remember going over it with a fine tooth comb & thinking .....well other than the minor buzz in active mode (which I'll rarely use & can be rectified) this is an awesome bass. :D
& now that it's starting to get broken in I love this bass even more.
Funny thing I recently purchased an MXR M80 Bass DI plus ( a must have have for bassists....but I'll save that for another post.) anyway it has a noise gate on it & this seem to have solved my own minor buzz issue.

Jazz basses are known for being a little noisey due to the single coil pick ups but this was supposed to be addressed on these new basses with the noiseless pick ups...Now the hum you're experiencing is most probably a shielding issue, I've read posts where other American Deluxe jazz bass owners had this issue & brough it back to the store (or the their repair guy) & had him paint on some shieldling...in most cases it seemed to do the trick :)
Good Luck to you in solving this problem & what color bass did you get ?? mine has the natural finish....... :)


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:09 pm
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Hi James,

Bought mine at the same place. You probably know Jean. He's been there for years. Mine is olympic white. You can see it here. http://101basses.bass-aholic.com/?p=2931

I was able to mostly hide the buzz with the VLE control on my MarkBass amp. It didn't seem that bad. Especially when gigging. It wasn't until I was doing some recording and could hear the hum through the mix. I tracked it back to the bass and started doing some comparisons. My previous main bass is a 90's Warwick Corvette and next to the Jazz is dead quiet. It has Bartolini J-type single coils.

When I started doing some research I found there are lots of people that either found work around's or just took the Jazz bass back.

If you read the link back to TalkBASS the guy there found that he could order and install the metal shield insert from Fender and fix the problem for about $40. Not sure why Fender doesn't do this out of the factory. I suspect this is what I'll have to do.

I really love this bass and I hope I can resolve the problem. For this kind of money you'd expect it to be better that a $500 MIM Jazz.

Jean has been trying to sell me a Sadowsky. Hmmmmmm I wonder... :)

Hope to see you around,
thanks,
Terri

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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:52 pm
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READ FIRST: Any modification from stock other than neck or bridge tweaks and new strings will void. That includes shielding paint and the following.

If you want to get rid of the hum once and for all, copper shielding any single coil bass is the most bang for the buck mod one can do. Some people use aluminum as it is cheaper, but I prefer to spend a dollar extra for copper because you can solder to copper. While the article you link to recommends using shielding paint, I prefer and use self adhesive copper tape and sheeting for the back of the pickguard. I've actually quieted passive single coil basses that already had shielding paint even more using copper shielding in all cavities and connecting the cavities to ground. You should also put copper on the BACK of the pickguard. Overlap the copper from the neck pickup cavity onto the top of the body so that the copper on the back of the pickguard contacts the overlap from the pickup cavity when the pickguard is replaced. It also helps to wrap the bridge shielding wire around a bridge screw instead of just letting it lay free under the bridge which is usually how they are setup.

No manufacturer adequately shields single coil instruments, nor ever has because it is too labor intensive. It isn't just Fender. Shielding paint is better than nothing and easier and much quicker to apply but I've found it inferior to copper shielding.

Adding a preamp to the instrument, which is what an active EQ system is, makes any hum seem worse because the preamp is boosting everything the instrument produces, including the hum. Sometimes the preamp itself can pickup RFI which causes hum and other noises. Copper shielding any instrument lowers the noise floor and costs about $10 in parts but takes several hours in labor. Anyone that is crafty enough to learn how to play bass should be able to copper tape shield a bass or guitar yourself with very basic hand tools and patience. This works wonders on Strats and Teles too.

On a Jazz you can also add both a pickup and bridge cover which covers the bridge pickup also. There is a reason Leo Fender put covers over the pickups in the first place. Then you can go one step further and ground these covers too. The covers can cost about $45 a set but if you still have noise after shielding they can help some.

A good tutorial on how to install copper shielding can be found here:
http://archive.basssessions.com/oct04/shield.html

Photos of a Strat shielding job (use same principles for your bass) here:
http://www.artandtechnology.com.au/guitar/shielding-strat.html

Good luck.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:55 pm
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Yeah Jean likes Sadowsky Basses, He passed me one off the wall behind the cash to try out.....it's a nice bass however,....I preffer the Neck & tone on the AM DLX Jazz & in the end that's the bass I chose. ( I bought a Marcus Miller Jazz 4 string off him in 2010).....
Did you try the Marcus Miller Jazz Bass 5 string? it's worth checking out... I Considered this bass when I was looking for a 5 string.
You might want to also check out the new G&L M2500 it's a new 5 string upgrade from G&L's L2500 & I just read a review of this bass & the M2000 in the January 2012 issue of Bass Player magazine.....they got Rave Reviews, they're the same price point as the American Deluxe V they're made in Fender's old Fullerton California factory (now home to G&L guitars).......G&L Guitars was Leo Fender's last company founded in 1979 he worked there until his death in 1991.

I Like the Olympic white color of your bass, it was my second bass color choice had I not gone with the natural finish.
Try the Fender $40.00 shielding fix or have Long & McQuade put some shielding on it..........though a little inconvenient it's worth trying before other options are considered...IMO :)
Good Luck


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:08 am
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HMMM.....I would of never considered Copper sheilding :? ..... thanks for the tip
& the links Brother Dave :D very informative.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:24 am
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http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/ ... ature_Bass

This is what all basses from Fender should be like inside when you buy it. I view all my basses like well made tools. Made to be used, not worshiped. I never destroy them ( well, I was a teen once and f'd up an '83 Jazz bass) but I do what it takes to make them work for me. This is an easy job and takes care of a lot of noise.

Also, Fender has no problem at all selling their basses and guitars as they are. You bought from them, right? Why should they change and lose $3 or $4 an instrument?. We're talking millions of dollars here. Think McDonalds...they can make a really great healthy organic meal for the people, but I doubt they will. I don't agree with that strategy btw but I'm not rich either lol.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:22 am
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GirlOnBass wrote:
Hi James,

If you read the link back to TalkBASS the guy there found that he could order and install the metal shield insert from Fender and fix the problem for about $40. Not sure why Fender doesn't do this out of the factory. I suspect this is what I'll have to do.

Terri


Fender doesn't sell an insert, and doesn't shield their guitars and basses well because of labor costs. It's really cheap to spray a little conductive paint to a cavity. It takes more effort to properly shield a bass or guitar and I doubt they will sell much more instruments with the added costs. They are in the business to make money and stay in business. If you think you have noise issues then check out the next guitar player with a Stratocaster. They dance around like crazy to keep the noise down and woe to the one who takes their hands off the strings. Funny but sad. In fact guitar players seem to be so used to noise that they think I'm crazy when I complain about any noise from my rig.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:19 pm
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Copper tape your bass unless the 50Hz/60Hz is your tone.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:58 am
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The grounding plates are still made by Fender and used in reissues and by the Custom Shop. They are available from Fender dealers willing to order them for you or available online from the online parts dealers. They are NOT $40 either. But copper foil is even cheaper.

Fender part numbers: 0019659000 / 0019662000 have both been used for the Jazz Bass shielding plate. Some come with a ground wire and pickup foam already attached and some don't. You can order one either way. Daren Riley has the ones with wire and foam attached in stock for $7.

Image

Fender part number 0014290020 is the ground plate for a P-Bass, also $7 from several vendors including Guitar Parts Resource.

Image

Funny, I mention copper shielding and suddenly everyone is on the bandwagon. If I had said Salami Shielding reduced hum or Aluminum Cornbread Pans stopped it I bet you people would have found some links to people shielding with salami or cornbread pans also. I've been copper shielding basses, especially J's and first generation P's and even some Silvertones for decades. Copper shielding to ground makes Teles and Strats much quieter too. So mention that to your buzzy guitarist. They may never have heard of it. Works just as good for them. The plates are a good idea, but only shield the back of the pickup. RFI comes from every direction so I line the entire pickup cavity, not just the bottom of it. I don't buy the plates and use copper tape. I just posted the photos and part numbers only to prove they do exist as their existence was called into question.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:28 am
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brotherdave wrote:
The grounding plates are still made by Fender and used in reissues and by the Custom Shop. They are available from Fender dealers willing to order them for you or available online from the online parts dealers. They are NOT $40 either. But copper foil is even cheaper.

Fender part numbers: 0019659000 / 0019662000 have both been used for the Jazz Bass shielding plate. Some come with a ground wire and pickup foam already attached and some don't. You can order one either way. Daren Riley has the ones with wire and foam attached in stock for $7.

Image

Fender part number 0014290020 is the ground plate for a P-Bass, also $7 from several vendors including Guitar Parts Resource.

Image

Funny, I mention copper shielding and suddenly everyone is on the bandwagon. If I had said Salami Shielding reduced hum or Aluminum Cornbread Pans stopped it I bet you people would have found some links to people shielding with salami or cornbread pans also. I've been copper shielding basses, especially J's and first generation P's and even some Silvertones for decades. Copper shielding to ground makes Teles and Strats much quieter too. So mention that to your buzzy guitarist. They may never have heard of it. Works just as good for them. The plates are a good idea, but only shield the back of the pickup. RFI comes from every direction so I line the entire pickup cavity, not just the bottom of it. I don't buy the plates and use copper tape. I just posted the photos and part numbers only to prove they do exist as their existence was called into question.


Hey Brother Dave, I hope you didn't think I said that the plates don't exist; I have them on both my Jaco bass and my 1977 J Bass. I couldn't nay say anything you post; you have a lot of knowledge. Terri mentioned an insert that Fender sold and I didn't think it was the grounding plates; my bad. There is an pretty cool back plate for strats that replaces the tremolo plate. http://www.fralinpickups.com/bpncs.asp. Doesn't help us though but a neat idea.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:59 pm
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hypersloth has posted a link on TB to a TB wiki article on grounding.
The link is http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Silencing_the_Noise_on_a_Marcus_Miller_Signature_Bass

I've also posted about this on 101 Basses http://101basses.bass-aholic.com/?p=3036 if anyone is interested.

I had a long talk with the sales guy and the guitar tech and Long & McQuade yesterday. I've decided to keep the bass and currently plan to take it in for shielding. Will cost perhaps $50.

Also regarding warranty, the store says since they are a certified Fender repair center the repair won't affect the warranty.

I'm still shocked that a $500 MIM is fine but the $1700 Dlx needs help. I have several basses from cheap to pretty decent. This one is the only problem. Noisy strats aside, when you can hear a basses hum in a recording over the mix of everything else in band. That's a problem.

Stay tuned as the plot unfolds.

Terri :)

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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:13 pm
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Glad you're going to keep the bass & have Long & McQuade's tech work on it for you....
I was actually going to tell that Long & McQuade is a Fender certified dealer & repair shop.....I 've had work done on my basses in the past at the North Vancouver & Vancouver Long & McQuade & from personal experience they've always left me feeling good with the work they've done on my basses......I actualy have to bring my Jaco Jazz fretless in for them to take a look at..(the bridge pickup has stopped working....I opened the bell plate & all looks well so the problem is the pickup or the wires at the pickup)

I thought I'd have them figure it out, I've heard a few senarios of what causes this & I'd usually try to figure it out myself but as you said it's a $50.00 charge & Fender Certified
you can't go wrong..


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:43 am
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Hey all.
First of all, Terri, I am also glad you are keeping the bass. To me there's nothing like a j bass neck. Fender has done a great job making a 5'r with the feel. It's better to start with a great playing and great unplugged sounding bass. The on-board electronics can be repaired or replaced but you can't create good tone. Sort of like a bad singer with auto tune and an expensive mic

Here is a great book that tells you all you want to know about bass setup and repair:
http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Bass-Handb ... 446&sr=8-2

A deal for under $20.


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Post subject: Re: American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:12 am
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I actually, Just bought this book on amazon (Dec31,) can't wait for it to arrive.
Back in November I saw it at Chapters (a Canadian book store chain) it retailed for $27.95 a little steep (everythings more expensive here) as opposed to $17.56 + shipping on Amazon's Canadian site, the book should arrive by the weekend, I thumbed through this book in the book store & was impressed....it's a must have for anyone who has a fender bass (or several Fender Basses..LOL) :lol:

I done the same thing when I've bought used cars, I'd buy one of those Hanes repair books that are available in the model & year of your car. :)


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