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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:34 am
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Fender did make unlined fretless basses...in the 70's. Some were maple. Unfortunatley not mid-priced.

I like that biting tone from the bridge on a fretless. I'd really like to hear a P-Bass with a Gibson EB humbucker at the neck fretless too...tone rolled off. Nice and soft.

I have a method for bridge intonation that involves the use of a Bada$$ II bridge because of it's size...kind of a give and take, compromise deal. I swear it works with a certain technique.

Those Deans with a 34' neck are ok but, you gotta watch the 35' necks. They failed to place the bridge to compensate. Not sure if they offer the longer scale in fretless, though.

I wimped out and sold my upright. I can't slap on it like the bluegrass guys. Couldn't bow, either. What's left to learn after that? It certainly upped my strength, which is good. Oh well.


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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:21 pm
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Most all of the MIJ/CIJ FLs from the 90s are unlined as well, and they are mid-priced nowadays (although the prices have gone up in recent years). I have a '97 or '98 that I got for less than $200 in 1999 and it's a fantastic axe.

As for upright - what left beyond slapping and bowing?

How about Mingus, Paul Chambers (he could play pizz to!), Scott LaFaro, Sam Jones, Art Davis, Ronnie Boykins, Reggie Workman...


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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:18 pm
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I've watched some of those jazz guys on youtube just shaking my head in defeat. Is it me or is Ron Carter out of tune quite a bit? Checked out Gary Karr's classical music. Why the heck did he retire? He gives the chills. That's not saying enough about him.

I did learn a little Motown on the big bass. Into Rock mostly though. Bits of "Hemispheres" on the upright for fun. My rhythmic technique, even timing seemed much easier to control on the electric after a few months of all that.

I'll get to know Ronnie Boykins soon.


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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:49 pm
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DantheBassist wrote:
I've watched some of those jazz guys on youtube just shaking my head in defeat. Is it me or is Ron Carter out of tune quite a bit? Checked out Gary Karr's classical music. Why the heck did he retire? He gives the chills. That's not saying enough about him.

I did learn a little Motown on the big bass. Into Rock mostly though. Bits of "Hemispheres" on the upright for fun. My rhythmic technique, even timing seemed much easier to control on the electric after a few months of all that.

I'll get to know Ronnie Boykins soon.


I do have some recordings of Ron Carter of which I have that very complaint. In particular is an early 60s recording with Eric Dolphy. Carter plays 'cello on most or all of it and I find it cringe-worthy. I also have some Ron Carter stuff that is spot-on intonation-wise. His work on Joe Henderson's version of Invitation from the album Tetragon should effectively wipe any impression of Carter as anything other than a fantastic bassist from your mind.

As for Boykins, get the Sun Ra CD Angels and Demons at Play/The Nubians of Plutonia. Boykins plays on most of the tracks from both original albums. The stuff he doesn't play on is some really progressive big band stuff from about 1956; great arrangements but unlike anything you've ever heard (Wilburn Green plays electric bass on those). Obviously, some of Ra's stuff is way out there, but these two albums (especially the 1956 big bands tracks) are more accessible than many others.


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Post subject: intonation in context
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:07 pm
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FretlessOnly wrote:
DantheBassist wrote:
I've watched some of those jazz guys on youtube just shaking my head in defeat. Is it me or is Ron Carter out of tune quite a bit? Checked out Gary Karr's classical music. Why the heck did he retire? He gives the chills. That's not saying enough about him.

I did learn a little Motown on the big bass. Into Rock mostly though. Bits of "Hemispheres" on the upright for fun. My rhythmic technique, even timing seemed much easier to control on the electric after a few months of all that.

I'll get to know Ronnie Boykins soon.


I do have some recordings of Ron Carter of which I have that very complaint. In particular is an early 60s recording with Eric Dolphy. Carter plays 'cello on most or all of it and I find it cringe-worthy. I also have some Ron Carter stuff that is spot-on intonation-wise. His work on Joe Henderson's version of Invitation from the album Tetragon should effectively wipe any impression of Carter as anything other than a fantastic bassist from your mind.

As for Boykins, get the Sun Ra CD Angels and Demons at Play/The Nubians of Plutonia. Boykins plays on most of the tracks from both original albums. The stuff he doesn't play on is some really progressive big band stuff from about 1956; great arrangements but unlike anything you've ever heard (Wilburn Green plays electric bass on those). Obviously, some of Ra's stuff is way out there, but these two albums (especially the 1956 big bands tracks) are more accessible than many others.


I thought the comments on intonation, mentioning Carter and Karr were interesting in that what is perceived as acceptable intonation is often judged by context, i.e., if what the bass is doing sounds good with the ensemble, then his intonation is "good", whereas if he sound off-key, his intonation is "bad."

I played in various symphonies over the years and soon discovered that we bassists are stuck in an intonation tug-of-war depending on who else is playing. Upper strings (like violins and violas) are often on the high side of the note, whereas low brass (tubas and trombones) often sound on the low side of the note. Neither is playing out of tune strictly, but making refinements to their sound for a particular effect (on the high side, the note sounds a little brighter, on the low side, the note sounds darker). If you listen to some of Gary Karr's stuff you'll hear that he sometimes goes a little flat in the lower register to make the sound even darker. One of the advantages of playing a fretless instrument is that you get to play around with this sharp/flat relationship. The trick is to do it without sounding like you're just tone deaf.


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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:37 pm
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Thanks guys for the influence.


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