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Post subject: Bass Amps
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:30 pm
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I'm thinking of getting an Acoustic 200 watt amp head with an Acoustic 4x10 cabinet . It's within my budget and I wonder if anyone has any experience with this setup? Or would a 200 watt combo be the best bet? I'd like to hear some opinions on combos vs separate head/cabs. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Bass Amps
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:50 pm
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Talldeafman wrote:
I'm thinking of getting an Acoustic 200 watt amp head with an Acoustic 4x10 cabinet . It's within my budget and I wonder if anyone has any experience with this setup? Or would a 200 watt combo be the best bet? I'd like to hear some opinions on combos vs separate head/cabs. Thanks.


Try a lighter and smaller cabinet like a 2x10, and consider a more powerful amp...at least 350 watts. Trust me, i've played for over 20 years and in my experience a 200 watts amp is not enough, even for a trio.

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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:01 am
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I agree a 200w will not cut thru the way you want it to. Unless you just play for yourself, but chances are you will want something more powerful in the future anyway.


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Post subject: Consider using a pre-amp routed through venue PAs
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:56 am
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Not sure that only having 200w is really a problem.

If you got a decent pre-amp / DI box (such as the Tech21 Sansamp) you could have your traditional amp / cab on stage (200w or whatever) and - if you needed more volume - you could plug your signal from the DI box straight into the PA, which most venues (with sound engineers on hand) should be OK with.

This combination would give you flexible levels of output depending on the venue; save your back; preserve your bank balance!


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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:57 am
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I can tell you from experience, stay away from the Ampeg combo's!! Even the hp has 220 watts and has no sound!! I am really happy with my SWR 350x head and Son Of Bertha Cab. I picked them both up off Ebay used for around 600.00. Hope that helps!!


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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:22 am
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My first real amp was the Ampeg BA115HP. It did its job for sometime, and very well at that. However after about a year, it crapped out. I was able to send it back to the factory free of charge and they sent me a BA115HPT, the tube version. The sound of the tube version is amazing, it sounds nothing like the HP. Way more depth, clarity, and life to the sound. I'd still say to steer clear of new ampegs cause of their poor quality control.

I've played an acoustic 200w head through the 410 cab before, and for the price its a STEAL. It has a lot of depth to the sound, and great clarity and punch due to the 10" speakers. I'd recomend it for sure.

Otherwise i'd recoment getting a GK combo if you are looking at combos. The problem with combos however is that everything inside the actual amplifier section starts to rattle after a while due to the amount of vibrations the speakers produce. I hated it at first with my ampeg but ive come to accept it until i am able to buy a half stack.

Im guessing this is your first big amp purchase, in which case 200w is more than enough. And like others said, if it has a line out you can just patch into the PA. What is your current amp setup?


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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:32 pm
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The Acoustic is not a bad amp. 200watts will work especially with a DI. If this is your first real amp this is not a bad start with it you will be able to get a feel for what you ultimately want or expect from a main amp. My first amp was a 300watt solid state Peavey Mark IV and the thing I learned from playing though it for 8 years was my next amp was gonna be more simple. The Peavey had 2 channels which were controlled using a foot switch. The amp was great don't get me wrong I just wanted less dials buttons and switches to fool with.


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Post subject: Re: Consider using a pre-amp routed through venue PAs
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:33 pm
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nrlincoln wrote:
Not sure that only having 200w is really a problem.

If you got a decent pre-amp / DI box (such as the Tech21 Sansamp) you could have your traditional amp / cab on stage (200w or whatever) and - if you needed more volume - you could plug your signal from the DI box straight into the PA, which most venues (with sound engineers on hand) should be OK with.

This combination would give you flexible levels of output depending on the venue; save your back; preserve your bank balance!


Actually he wouldn't need a DI box of any sort as the head he is asking about has an XLR direct out.


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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:26 pm
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Talldeafman wrote:
I'm thinking of getting an Acoustic 200 watt amp head with an Acoustic 4x10 cabinet . It's within my budget and I wonder if anyone has any experience with this setup? Or would a 200 watt combo be the best bet? I'd like to hear some opinions on combos vs separate head/cabs. Thanks.


I've tried the Acoustic 100 combo, 200 combo and the 600 head into TWO 4x10 cabs at Guitar Center. Really good values soundwise. The downside to them is that (the combos and cabs especially) are way heavier than similar products by other makers. This is probably due to the cabinet construction material which may in fact be particle board.

NOW. The Acoustic 200 head's power rating of 200 watts is for a 4 ohm load. The cab you are talking about is an 8 ohm cab. Therefore you will only be getting half of the watts which would be 100 watts. In order to get all 200 watts you would need to add a second 8 ohm cabinet for a total of load of 4 ohms.

I have a 450 watt at 4 ohms Ampeg head and I tried gigging it a few weeks ago at a very small venue (club) with one 8 ohm 1x15 cab instead of putting the 2x10 on top. So I was only getting about 225 watts and it really wasn't loud enough to suit me. This place was on the second floor with no elevator so I thought I'd try to make do by carrying just one cab up.

I'd say if you are only going to use one 4x10 8 ohm Acoustic cab to get the Acoustic 600 head instead of the 200 head. The 600 costs about $250 more. That is twice as much as the 200 head but it would be three times louder than the 200. Also it would not be overloading the 4x10 Acoustic cab since the cab is only getting about 300 watts from the head and since the cab is rated at 400 watts so you'd be safe. The 600 head will make you much happier I think. If things go well you could add a second 8 ohm Acoustic 4x10 cab later and have a 600 watt two cab rig. So you've got room to grow there.

Keep in mind that the Acoustic 600 head does not have to be used with Acoustic brand cabs. I think I'd find a 4 ohm 4x10 that takes 600 watts. There is no shortage of them. For example Avatar and Dr. Bass both make highly regarded cabs that are much lighter solid wood construction at reasonable prices which can take that kind of power. The Dr. Bass 4x10 is taller than a conventional 4x10, but if you've got room for the extra inches I'd probably go with that one because it is taller and you'll hear it better up close to it while playing. Dr. Bass 4x10 4 ohm cabs are $569 rated at 800 watts while the more compact and lighter Avatar 4x10 4 ohm NEO cab is $459 and rated at 1000 watts. I think either of those would make your back happier and maximize the power output of the Acoustic 600 head too. In contrast TWO of the Acoustic 8 Ohm 4x10 cabs would cost you about $600 and weigh (I'm guessing) about THREE times as much as one of the Avatar cabs. The Acoustic cabs are very heavy. In fact their weight is practically a secret. Meanwhile the Avatar Neo weighs 65 pounds and the Dr. Bass 410 weighs 78 pounds stock and Dr. Bass offers a lighter NEO version as an upgrade.


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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:25 pm
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Thanks everyone for your replies and for the wealth of information. I currently use a small Marshall MB30. It's a 30 watt amp and I use it for home practice and it's got a lot of power to it. I play in a church band and the church provides a Hartke 120 watt kickback amp with a XLR line out and it is loud enough to play over the PA system in a small church. I had the good fortune to play thru a Hartke 500 watt amp in a hotel ballroom a couple months ago (it was my first paying gig, by the way) and I loved that big, loud amp but at 900 bucks and change it's a bit outof my price range. I'll look around and check out Guitar Center and see what's out there.

Thanks again for the replies. Appreciate it.


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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:15 pm
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Lots of people like the Hartke sound. I guess it is whatever floats your boat tonewise, but I'm not a fan of Hartke cabs. Their heads are good though. Just keep in mind that any 200 watt at 4 ohm head into a single 8 ohm cab is like having a 100 watt head and not a 200. I really like the Marshall MB30 as that is indeed a good little practice amp.


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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:26 pm
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Thanks for the technical info, BrotherDave.
I love the Marshall amps and wish I could afford a bigger 300-500 watt Marshall head and cabinet stack but they cost an arm and a leg.


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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:09 pm
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Being a drummer for the last 36 years and a bass player for the last 4 year caused me to incorporate some of the old with some of the new.

I play bass primarily at gigs where a PA system is provided for FOH and monitor.

I use a Mackie 402 milxer as a DI. They are only 100 bucks and have a switch on the two mic/line channels that allow the direct plug in of passive bass (or guitar). It has two band EG and enough boost of the signal to be comparable to many of the higher priced active DI on the market.

The left main output of the Mackie 402 goes to my Line 6 Studio 110. The right main output goes to the subwoofer of my Roland personal monitor system that is part of my electronic drum kit. The 110 fits on top of the Roland sub and sits directly behind me. A little tweaking with the EQs and I can get good lows, mids and highs out of my jazz bass. I have been asked to turn them down a time or two! The 110 puts out 75 watts from a 10" speaker and the Roland sub has 100 watts out of 2 x 10" speakers.

I use Boss effects pedals that feed the Mackie 402.

The Mackie 402 also allows me to use in ear monitors, plug in an ipod for practice or even a microphone if I need to converse with an out of control lead guitar player.

Goofy? Well maybe, but it works for me. I have yet to go out and purchase a large amp and cab for lack of adequate quality low end sound. Maybe someday I will need something bigger. For now, the small stuff is easy on the back.

SD Scott


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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:31 pm
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SD Scott wrote:
Bein

I play bass primarily at gigs where a PA system is provided for FOH and monitor.

I use a Mackie 402 mixer as a DI. They are only 100 bucks and have a switch on the two mic/line channels that allow the direct plug in of passive bass (or guitar). It has two band EG and enough boost of the signal to be comparable to many of the higher priced active DI on the market.

The left main output of the Mackie 402 goes to my Line 6 Studio 110. The right main output goes to the subwoofer of my Roland personal monitor system that is part of my electronic drum kit. The 110 fits on top of the Roland sub and sits directly behind me. A little tweaking with the EQs and I can get good lows, mids and highs out of my jazz bass. I have been asked to turn them down a time or two! The 110 puts out 75 watts from a 10" speaker and the Roland sub has 100 watts out of 2 x 10" speakers.

I use Boss effects pedals that feed the Mackie 402.

The Mackie 402 also allows me to use in ear monitors, plug in an ipod for practice or even a microphone if I need to converse with an out of control lead guitar player.

Goofy? Well maybe, but it works for me. I have yet to go out and purchase a large amp and cab for lack of adequate quality low end sound. Maybe someday I will need something bigger. For now, the small stuff is easy on the back.

SD Scott


Beam me up Scotty! All good points, but off topic. So as long as you veered off the path I’ll follow.

I use a very similar setup with the mixer’s stereo output direct-in to my computer for home practice and home demo recording.

I’m surprised at how pleased you are with plugging your instrument into the mixer and then using the mixer to feed the Line 6, PA and the Roland sub. Ordinarily mike preamps on mixers are not voiced to be adequate or pleasing for bass or guitar amplification. However I’ve not used that particular mixer and it may be specially designed with guitar/bass preamp voicing.

For direct in at home I use an Aphex Punch Factory compressor and Aphex Bass XCiter Pedal, and a Behringer BDI (Bass Driver clone) to feed a mixer which is plugged directly into the computer sound card. Take away any of those pedals when patching directly into the mixer and the result is lackluster. When playing a band rehearsal I use ONLY the Line 6 Studio 110 with a tuner pedal. When playing gigs I use the Aphex compressor into an Ampeg head with rack tuner and no other processing other than a Whirlwind selector to switch between two instruments.

I’m curious about what Boss pedals you are using. And also about what emulation preset you are using on the Line 6 Studio 110 for this setup?

I’m also wondering how it would work to plug the pedal output into the Studio 110, patch the XLR direct out from the Studio 110 into your mixer and feed one mixer output to the PA and the other one to the Roland sub? I think that might be more uniform sounding since they all would then be voiced by the Line 6 preamp. Also by putting the Line 6 Studio 110 first you could eliminate any EQ and compression pedals and lighten the load. I really like the compressor in the Line 6 Studio 110 and I’d take advantage of it to feed both your Roland sub and the PA.

The way you are doing it you are getting one tone from the Line 6 and another from the Roland Sub and the PA. So the way it sounds to you on stage with the coloration from the Line 6 is not the way it is sounding in the PA. When not using a PA feed then your rig is sort of like a bi-amp rig because everyone hears what you hear so that would be more ok to me.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, so if it works for you then it works. There’s nothing goofy about it at all. Just whatever works for you is what works for you.

I hate moving big heavy gear and the older I get the more I hate it.


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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:47 pm
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I gotta tell you, after using an 8-space rack full of goodies, a pair of Ampeg 4x10 cabs, and an Ampeg 2x15 cab for 15 years, I am no longer the size queen I once was. I bought an Ampeg combo (BT115) for practice, & if I want to sound good for a gig or recording, I'll use my rack gear and use the Ampeg combo as a monitor. (It's got the angled back so I can use it like a wedge monitor, which I love.)

Nothing will improve your tone, however, like a tube power amp. I don't care what size it is, it'll be plenty. And I'm also a proponent of 15" speakers for bass. I think of them like 12" for guitars. It's just the right tone for the instrument. (I say this after having sacrificed my back for 15 years with the Ampeg 4x10s, I know.)

Onstage, I find the 4x10 & 8x10 cabs completely useless unless they're at least 15 feet away from you. The array of small 10s needs space to focus and give you that great bottom end. In small clubs and most practice spaces, there just isn't room for that. That's another reason I prefer 15s.

Finally, I prefer to have the sound guy mike my bass amp instead of running direct. The speaker is part of my tone, and I want the audience to hear what I hear. I work hard on my tone, and I want to control it, not some sound guy I just met who has his own idea of what a bass should sound like (dull & boring). I think an SM58 right on axis gives great tone through a typical PA. (I like to record that way too.)


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