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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:47 pm
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Kevmove wrote:
Brother Dave, thank you for articulating what i have been thinking for quite awhile now. Most of the time, I keep my mouth shut, because i think, "most of these posters are probably teenagers who don't have the benefit of experience to justify some of the comments they are making". But I really stretches me every time I read a post about how "someone made their $400 bass sound as good as a $2000 bass".

I am a Fender fanatic. I love its tone, its weight, the sheer audacity it exudes as I strut across the stage. I own a VM P Bass that I appreciate for what it is. But when it is time to bring my "A Game" I pull out my Fender.


Let me reiterate: I am NOT suggesting you can make up the difference between a 400 dollar bass and a 2000 dollar bass by upgrading. I own an MIA bass, and I'm well aware of the difference. There's no way I could make an MIM bass come anywhere close to the MIA.

However, the point I am trying to make is that when you have a budget you have to be strategic with your funds. If you can just barely spend 600 bucks on a bass, you have to be very thoughtful about what you purchase. I am simply saying I would rather purchase a slightly cheaper instrument like a classic vibe instrument and upgrade some components, such as the pickups. Will it play as good as a 600 dollar MIM? No. Will it potentially sound better? In my experience, yes.


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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:48 pm
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What ever happened to delayed gratification? Unless you have no income at all, you can afford to buy just about anything, provided you are willing to wait. I remember going to my local music store and seeing a shiny new Tascam Portastudio 4 track. The salesman obviously saw the lust in my eyes and suggested I pay on it weekly. So I patiently paid a little bit each payday until she was all mine! In the meantime, I searched high and low for any info I could find on multi-track recording, I hung out at the store watching the more experienced people give clinics on the new "MIDI" standard.

So, was the Portastudio way more than I could afford at one time? Absolutely! But I was able to buy one by being patient. The fact that I don't own a MIA Fender today is not a function of me not having enough money, it based on how long it will take to save up for it. And I promise you, once I get it, I won't replace any parts, nor will I "flip it" to get the latest new bass. Did you know that the amount of money that Americans spend on chocolate alone could singlehandedly solve world hunger?


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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:29 pm
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I don't know. I've got to disagree with you guys. I'm not a big shot, nor am I the most musically talented guy in the conversation, but in my experience with various instruments I'm very familiar with, whether it be a clarinet, mandolin, trombone, drum set, guitar, piano, or bass, the electric bass guitar has the narrowest level of difference between a well crafted cheapie, and a well crafted pro model. There's a huge world of differnece between a $150 drum kit and a $3000 drum kit. There's a huge difference between a $150 violin and a $3000 violin. Though there's a difference between a $150 electric bass and a $3000 electric bass, I don't feel it to be so glaringly obvious that it should discount a cheaper model at all. Maybe to a player whose talent falls within the top 5% of players, of which, I know one or two, but the other 20 bass players I've worked with would be just as capable with a new squier as with a new American series Fender.

In my years with pro gear, I've been humbled by those who have overcome their limited budget with talent far greater than my own. When I'm in a music store rockin a squier 60's classic vibe P-Bass, rather than hear the pathetic electronics under the tone knob, I hear a set of fingers that could use more practice, and a mind that thirsts for more musical knowledge.


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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:40 pm
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Chris1980 wrote:
I don't know. I've got to disagree with you guys. I'm not a big shot, nor am I the most musically talented guy in the conversation, but in my experience with various instruments I'm very familiar with, whether it be a clarinet, mandolin, trombone, drum set, guitar, piano, or bass, the electric bass guitar has the narrowest level of difference between a well crafted cheapie, and a well crafted pro model. There's a huge world of differnece between a $150 drum kit and a $3000 drum kit. There's a huge difference between a $150 violin and a $3000 violin. Though there's a difference between a $150 electric bass and a $3000 electric bass, I don't feel it to be so glaringly obvious that it should discount a cheaper model at all. Maybe to a player whose talent falls within the top 5% of players, of which, I know one or two, but the other 20 bass players I've worked with would be just as capable with a new squier as with a new American series Fender.

In my years with pro gear, I've been humbled by those who have overcome their limited budget with talent far greater than my own. When I'm in a music store rockin a squier 60's classic vibe P-Bass, rather than hear the pathetic electronics under the tone knob, I hear a set of fingers that could use more practice, and a mind that thirsts for more musical knowledge.


I don't disagree with what you are saying: ultimately the music coming out of an instrument is far more important than the instrument itself. But at the same time this is a discussion page about instruments, and I know I'm not the only one who obsesses over small things about instruments.

The fact is that a good instrument can and usually does help an artist achieve the music they want. That can be through the sound or the playability. This isn't to say someone can't get a good tone from a crappy bass or can't make great music on a crappy bass, but a good instrument will undoubtably help them.

I have also found that I feel far more comfortable on my MIA bass than any other instrument I've played. And when I'm more comfortable, it's easier for me to improvise during jam sessions. I recently just put a decent pickup in my old starter kit P bass so I could use it for jazz. Trust me, I found myself far less comfortable on the instrument, and I wasn't on top of my game.

Therefore, I think there's a lot of merit into looking for quality instruments. And for those musicians on a tight budget, there's a lot of merit into seeing how to best spend their money to help them make their music.


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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:39 am
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Yes Kenmove and I keep looking for the right USA Fender bass for me. I just haven't found one since 1968 and I can't go back to 1971 and buy that Telecaster back. That was the best bass I’ve ever played. I've bought countless USA Fender basses since but just never connected with any of them. So, I keep looking. I don’t even have a Fender USA bass right now! That has been the case for almost two years. I had a 2004 Highway One Jazz last.

In April of 2005 I found a bass that sounded great and played fabulous stock. It was the first non-Fender bass I ever bought. I made it sound slightly better to me with a Seymour Duncan SCPB3 pickup, Vitamin-Q tone cap, CTS pots and copper shielding and I did a few other little things that were not tone related. I know this bass is basically a piece of junk to anyone else on the planet and certainly to everyone at this forum, but it was that 1 in 10,000 that just came out perfect I guess. I think it probably is a 3 or even a 2 piece body. It is just a fluke. After the electronics upgrades I am probably the only one who would know that it sounds just a little bit different than before, however the basic tone was there initially and I have had total and absolute confidence in it from day one. When I bought it I was ecstatic. I still am nearly 5 years later.

So, I would be the last person to knock Squier VM or any other Squier series. I have another bass that is an almost equally junky bass make at the Cort plant in Korea for Ibanez which I bought used on eBay on just a gut feeling it would be a good one. Bingo again. This bass plays fantastic, but is weaker on the upper mids. Sounds just like an early second generation P-bass would. The weak upper mids is probably because of the wood, but it is a really good gigging backup with a very lush low end. I can play it all day. It has a big old neck but a pointy headstock and some sort of el-cheapo closed gear tuners…but again there was just a connection there. I play this one at home everyday.

In the past two days I have just made two tweaks on my Fender CIJ 51 Precision RI that put it on a new level for me. I think it is going to be a lifetime keeper. All along the tone of this bass was very open and woody.

WOOD is the foundation for the tone. There is no doubt the wood in the USA basses is superior to MIM basses. I also think the CIJ wood is pretty dang good too.

So many basses, so little time.


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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:18 am
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You know, it just occurred to me that this whole my bass is greater than, even though it cost less than is the offspring of a debate that started long before my childhood: My off brand sneakers are just as good, if not better than your name brand sneakers.

Before sneakers became a fashion accessory that cost more than a Squier guitar, there was a day every child every look forward to or tried to postpone, shopping for clothes. It didn't happen often, usually just when school was about to start or after kids went through the winter growth spurt. I personally didn't care about shirts and pants, but I sure cared about the sneakers. We had 2 classifications: either you got name brand sneakers, such as Converse All Stars, Pro Keds, or Beta Bullits or you got Bo Bos. Bo Bos were knock offs. They were cheap. They wore out really fast. And oh yeah, they guaranteed that you would get teased or harassed to no end. There was even a ditty we sung to the tune played in that movie "Bridge over the River Kwai" starring Sir Alec Guiness:

Bob Bos, they make your feet feel fine, Bob Bos, they cost a $1.99, Bob Bo's oh get your Bob Bo's oh get your Bob Bo's your Bo Bo's today!

I know most of you won't get this, but I never looked forward to this time. In fact, my day of liberation came when I finally saved up enough money to get some name brand sneaker.

As an adult, this brand consciousness should matter, but it still manifests itself: the car we drive, our profession, THE BASS WE PLAY, etc. Just as the kids who line up on opposite sides to debate whose sneakers are better, we fall into the same lines: Those who justify why their less expensive instrument is just as good and those who justify why their more expensive instrument is better. So what is the solution?

It's real simple: just accept that the debate will never end. As long as we classify things, people will always choose a side. If I own a cheap instrument, I will prove its worth. If I own an expensive instrument, I will justify its cost. If I own both, I will tout my superiority and egalitarianism (look it up). All the while, the manufacturers of these consumer goods will keep smiling and count their money.

In the words of IKEA, "Do you think that bass guitar cares that its a Squier and not a Fender Custom? That's cause you crazy, basses doesn't have any feelings!"

As for me, I'm just hear to stir the pot. I love a good debate!


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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:02 pm
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I have nothing to add but the fact the Infinity Q45 will never be a more expensive Accord, since Honda never produce the Infinity, plus the Q45 is RWD V8 and the Accord is FWD I4 or V6 :P

Debates like this is why I stopped posting. Who cares. Play what feels good/right to you. It's your sound. The best sounding bass to me has been my MIJ, it fits the music I play live. I have other basses, if it doesn't feel right after awhile, I'll sell it. That cheap VM 70s JB I have, feels right, sounds right for such a cheap bass, so it's staying. Your amp has a lot to do with how the bass sounds too, so having the 'right' bass has also a lot to do with having the right amp/amp set up. Have fun, find the right one.

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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:28 pm
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I'm not really sure how this discussion turned into a war between squier, MIM, MIJ, and MIA :?

As people have stated above you don't need a fantastic bass to make good music. You don't even need a fantastic bass to get a good tone. It's easy to get lost in what's best out there. That being said, I don't think there's no value in discussing instruments.

I guess my point is that for a lot of people are perfectly satisfied with getting a decent instrument that's not the best out there. But there's others who value having a good instrument in their hands. For some people it's cars... I could care less what car I drive, but some people need to have a hot rodded muscle car. Do they need it to get around town? No. Do we need the best stuff to make good music? No. But it certainly helps.

One could look at this as being the same as someone with a souped up muscle car, that we're just children trying to have the best toys, but I think that's not being totally fair. For a lot of people, including myself, these little differences in playability and tone help me make music, and make me more comfortable when I play.

I don't really know where I'm going with this. For what it's worth, I'm kind of curious to see where this thread ends up going. Some people seem annoyed, but I'm rather interested.


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