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Post subject: Need Help! Having problems playing this J Bass.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:06 pm
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Ok, I am a very new player, just been trying to learn to play bass for real for a couple of months. I had been loaned an old Samick Stingray knockoff that I had started on, then my local music store had a sale and I picked up that MIM Jazz I had been drooling over.

First off I love the bass, but I feel like a kid with a new car with waaay to much horsepower to handle. I am having a terrible time keeping it quiet, I am playing simple simple stuff, very slowly, (the Rufus Reid book first etude) but I cannot control the harmonics this thing generates, when I try to play a note then mute it with my fretting fingers, It seems to generate a harmonic, about 60% of the time. If I try to mute a note with my thumb on the right hand I have to dig in hard, and use basically the whole pad of my thumb from the first knuckle to the tip on order to silence the string.

When I play a line that has a sucesion of hammer-ons and pull-offs it seems to build up until it almost seems like the harmonic is playing on top of the regular note, if that makes sense.

Can you guys give me any pointers? I tried putting some flatwounds on it, I had heard that they were easier to control than rounds being less bright, and this J has bright in spades anyways, but it hasnt really helped.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated, I'm not sure if my technique or the setup of the bass.

Thanks in advance


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Post subject: Re: Need Help! Having problems playing this J Bass.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:31 am
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cday wrote:
Ok, I am a very new player, just been trying to learn to play bass for real for a couple of months. I had been loaned an old Samick Stingray knockoff that I had started on, then my local music store had a sale and I picked up that MIM Jazz I had been drooling over.

First off I love the bass, but I feel like a kid with a new car with waaay to much horsepower to handle. I am having a terrible time keeping it quiet, I am playing simple simple stuff, very slowly, (the Rufus Reid book first etude) but I cannot control the harmonics this thing generates, when I try to play a note then mute it with my fretting fingers, It seems to generate a harmonic, about 60% of the time. If I try to mute a note with my thumb on the right hand I have to dig in hard, and use basically the whole pad of my thumb from the first knuckle to the tip on order to silence the string.

When I play a line that has a sucesion of hammer-ons and pull-offs it seems to build up until it almost seems like the harmonic is playing on top of the regular note, if that makes sense.

Can you guys give me any pointers? I tried putting some flatwounds on it, I had heard that they were easier to control than rounds being less bright, and this J has bright in spades anyways, but it hasnt really helped.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated, I'm not sure if my technique or the setup of the bass.

Thanks in advance


Hello, If the bass is setup incorrectly for instants if the pickups are to close to the strings you will experience harmonic type sound. If you changed to flatwound strings this could be a problem also due to the charatristics of the flatwounds. Flatwound strings will put more tension on the neck causing neck to bow more. If you did not put the same gauge strings on the bass this will also through off your setup on the neck and the intonation at the 12th fret and also string height. If you do not know how to set it up I wouldn't do it, you could damage the bass. The store you purchased it from might set it up for you free if you ask them, due to the fact you purchased it from them. I learned how to setup my own bass in order to save me money and also to be able to set it up the way I like it. Fender has a step by step method of doing this in their information section it is a good starting point. Just changing to flatwound strings could have created more problems for you. And you still have the harmonic problem.

Hope this helps you!


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:21 pm
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Just thinking simple stuff here...

What kind of amp are you using? Is the treble turned up too high?


Quote:
Flatwound strings will put more tension on the neck causing neck to bow more.


True for some brands and gauges of flats, but not all. Fender and LaBella flatwounds are pretty high-tension but D'addario Chromes and especially Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats are lower tension than most roundwounds of the same gauge.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:19 pm
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George wrote:
Just thinking simple stuff here...

What kind of amp are you using? Is the treble turned up too high?


Quote:
Flatwound strings will put more tension on the neck causing neck to bow more.


True for some brands and gauges of flats, but not all. Fender and LaBella flatwounds are pretty high-tension but D'addario Chromes and especially Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats are lower tension than most roundwounds of the same gauge.


True about the brand I should have mentioned to be carefull choosing which brand you use. I have flatwounds on my '64 Custom Shop Relic but I was carefull to pay attention, to the tension rating on each string. I didn't want to load the neck with to much tention. Thank you for mentioning it.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:40 am
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Take the bass to a guitar shop, have it set-up, if the problem continues you know you have to work on your technique. You say you're a new player, it takes time.


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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:32 pm
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Thanks for the replies guys, the flats are Fender 9050's btw, I think next time I am going to try the TI's, but I do like the feel of these.

I took it in and had it set up at the shop that sold it to me, and that helped some, when the tech looked at it he said it was pretty close already, it only took about a half an hour, but I had to run an errand, and when I came back he was gone for the day, so I didn't get a chance to ask him what he did.

That did help some, but the harmonics are still there, while I was at the shop I plugged in a P Bass to one of their amps and played a bit and didnt get the same sounds, unfortunately by the time I got back to pick up my bass, I didnt have time to plug it in to any of their amps to try it out, had to pick up my daughter at daycare.

I'm playing through a "Drive" 20W practice amp that I picked up cheap, which may be part of the problem. I've tried fiddling with all the controls, I get the best result with the treble rolled all the way off. I'm going to try hauling the bass back into the music store this weekend and plug it in and "test drive some amps"

I will admit, I did try some foam under the strings by the bridge and I have to say, that cured it, and I love the tone that gives me, I know that if it's my technique, it's really just a crutch, but I don't know if I will be able to give that sound up, it smooths out the brightness just right.

Anyways, thanks all for the advice!


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:57 am
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This is very common with new strings. New strings drive me nutszo too!

What you are hearing is a jumble of overtones AND harmonics. I've got the cure. Click on the RESOURCES link in my forum signature, then click on DO IT YOURSELF MAINTENANCE AND SET UP and then from that page go to: MUTE AN ELECTRIC BASS THE BROTHER DAVE WAY! That is your answer right there. Enjoy!


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Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 1:23 pm
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All the responses you have gotten are great. there is one response that was really good: practice, practice, practice. It is not easy to get a bass to play only the sounds you want. Good fretting technique along with left hand or right hand string muting takes alot of practice. When i first started, I used scrunchies, rubber bands, foam, weatherstripping, whatever i could find to eliminate the open string noise. Once I really focused on my technique, I didn't need to use those aids. If you go to berkleeshares.com, there is a pretty good video that demonstrates string muting techniques. Whatever you do, don't give up, you will eventually develop the coordination and dexterity so that only the sounds you want to hear come from your bass amp.


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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:26 pm
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I'd like to thank everyone for the advice, and I've been trying to get in at least half an hour a day, and my control over sympathetic vibrations, which was definately part of my problem has gotten quite a bit better as I concentrate one muting the open strings, I'm still having problems with the harmonics when I mute a string to kill a note I have played though.

For instance, If I pluck an open A, and then mute it, it kills the A, but I get a ringing harmonic left over, this happens almost anywhere on the string from the nut to the bridge pickup. It's worse in places where you would get a natural harmonic, especially the 3rd fret, from halfway between the 2nd and 3rd fretwire, to halfway between the 3rd and 4th fretwire. its also bad halfway between the neck pickup and halfway between the neck and bridge pickups.

If I can get an inch or so of my finger onto the string, that will pretty much kill the harmonic when I mute it, but to do that my fingers have to be pretty much parallel to the strings.

I'm hoping to get into the store again this weekend, try some different basses and amps and see how I do with them, hoping to isolate it to either "my technique needs a lot of work" or "something isnt right with either my bass or amp"


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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:02 am
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turns out, it was the amp, finally made it into the shop last night and tried some of the amps there, the extraneous harmonics where almost entirely gone.

So now I just have to save up some dough and pick up a new amp.

Thanks for the replies guys!


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