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Post subject: Why Active? There's no point!
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:55 pm
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I have played more active and passive basses than I can get my hands on, and every time I come to the same conclusion: there is NO point in getting an active bass.

The biggest problem with having active basses is that the preamp does more harm than good when you really break things down. Every time the raw signal goes through a peamp, it looses some of the pickup's natural tone. Normally you run through an amp's preamp, which balances out the signal and allows eq adjusting. With active basses, you end up running trough TWO preamps. Now I ask you: what is the point!?!?! 9/10 times the preamp in the bass is considerably worse than the preamp in the actual amp. Even with the eq on the bass set to neutral, the preamp will taint the raw output of the bass and make the sound more "generic." There is no reason to have two preamps when you're playing, because you only need to adjust the EQ at one point.

The only logical reason I can see for wanting a built in EQ on the bass is if you have to change the EQ midway through the song. But honestly, how many people actually do that? And active basses do have a hotter output, but most of the time this can be replicated by adjusting the amp's gain.



So when it comes down to it, people think that active electronics gives you more options, but in reality it limits your options because your bass's natural output is tainted by a low grade preamp.


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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:27 am
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Obviously you do not know how to work an active bass. Yea, passive basses are nice, but I'd take an active bass over them anytime.

The biggest problem people have is they over eq their bass. You can get carried away even more with all these amps with tons of eq controls. Even with a passive bass. I say keep is simple. My Genz-Benz has a simple eq section which I keep flat. All the eq'ing I do is on the bass itself. Which is better because I can make adjustments on the fly while I am playing.

I would not trade the preamps in my Sadowsky basses for anything, or even the 18V in my American Deluxe Jazz FMT. Like I said, passive jazz basses sound great. But you plug in one of my bass and man, you are on a whole new level. More headroom, more tone, fatter and tighter bass, cut through the mix highs which is great for slap.

Call me bias, but I do not think there is a better preamp either in amp or bass that is better then the Sadowsky. Play one of those puppies and I think you would change your mind.

Also the 18V preamp in my Fender, it is very versatile. I can really dial in the tone to cut through the mix because of the 3-band eq. That changes gig to gig.

You did not mention what bass you tried. And yes there are allot of crappy preamp out there. But once you get into the higher end stuff, boy it is a whole new world!

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1972 Fender Jazz
Fodera Monarch Standard Special Madrone
Roscoe Century Custom 5
Bacchus Craft Series 5 String Jazz
Crews Maniac Sound Jackson 5 Fretless
Delray Bass Co. Custom P-Bass
NS Design Omnibass Electric Upright
Breedlove Solo Acoustic Fretless


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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:56 pm
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I play my active Jazz in a church setting where I plug directly into the board via a DI box. It is great to have some EQ options if the sound guy isn't sharp. It doesn't sound the same as a passive, but it still sounds good. The set list at church can vary greatly and changing settings between songs is really easy when your EQ is onboard.
Al


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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:16 pm
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bassclef wrote:
Obviously you do not know how to work an active bass. Yea, passive basses are nice, but I'd take an active bass over them anytime.

The biggest problem people have is they over eq their bass. You can get carried away even more with all these amps with tons of eq controls. Even with a passive bass. I say keep is simple. My Genz-Benz has a simple eq section which I keep flat. All the eq'ing I do is on the bass itself. Which is better because I can make adjustments on the fly while I am playing.

I would not trade the preamps in my Sadowsky basses for anything, or even the 18V in my American Deluxe Jazz FMT. Like I said, passive jazz basses sound great. But you plug in one of my bass and man, you are on a whole new level. More headroom, more tone, fatter and tighter bass, cut through the mix highs which is great for slap.

Call me bias, but I do not think there is a better preamp either in amp or bass that is better then the Sadowsky. Play one of those puppies and I think you would change your mind.

Also the 18V preamp in my Fender, it is very versatile. I can really dial in the tone to cut through the mix because of the 3-band eq. That changes gig to gig.

You did not mention what bass you tried. And yes there are allot of crappy preamp out there. But once you get into the higher end stuff, boy it is a whole new world!


echo...echo...echo

my ernie ball music man sterling (fretless) is passive and luv it to death! i can get tones out of that bass that have come to me in dreams! i would never give this bad boy up even for a fender (dramitic music), sorry guys :roll:

but ive played active fenders and love the tone possibilites!!!

i wanna get a cheap used mexican p bass and do a operation and make it active!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0PqyvHx ... D&index=40


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Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:02 am
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Actives are really great and they usually can give you a "beefed up" sound, especially out of a jazz....

i only have passives because i cant afoord any actives but thats ok, i love my jazz fretless and my 70s jazz =)


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Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:38 pm
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As with all things, if you don't know what the settings do, its easy to conclude that they are useless and a waste of money. It doesn't help when the marketing guys hype all the features that a product has available, appealing to our sense that "more is better". Feature list of some products would make a nasa scientist scratch their head.

I don't think that this is the case with active basses. Each one may have varying quality of components, but they essentially do the same thing: provide the artist greater flexibility in shaping your sound. The nuances of sound that can be achieved with an active bass can not be overstated. Unfortunately, these nuances are never discovered by those who hold to a "full on or full off" philosophy: crank all the control knobs to 11 and slap away.

When I purchased my first active bass, I thought I wasted my money. Then I bought Guitar Rig, which had a pretty decent tutorial dealing with sound shaping. At that point, I went back a played with the various settings, only to discover that I was guilty of "over eqing" my bass. With this new info, I found these extra knobs offer control of my tone that is not possible on passive instruments.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, bu I hope that rather than stating that something is a "waste of time and money" that we would more often hear "I don't see the value that xyz feature offers. Could someone give me insight on the advantage this feature offers?".

Or we could continue to make one sided statements that we really don't want dialogue about, but are seeking those who agree with us. How boring!


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Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:12 pm
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Kevmove wrote:
As with all things, if you don't know what the settings do, its easy to conclude that they are useless and a waste of money. It doesn't help when the marketing guys hype all the features that a product has available, appealing to our sense that "more is better". Feature list of some products would make a nasa scientist scratch their head.

I don't think that this is the case with active basses. Each one may have varying quality of components, but they essentially do the same thing: provide the artist greater flexibility in shaping your sound. The nuances of sound that can be achieved with an active bass can not be overstated. Unfortunately, these nuances are never discovered by those who hold to a "full on or full off" philosophy: crank all the control knobs to 11 and slap away.

When I purchased my first active bass, I thought I wasted my money. Then I bought Guitar Rig, which had a pretty decent tutorial dealing with sound shaping. At that point, I went back a played with the various settings, only to discover that I was guilty of "over eqing" my bass. With this new info, I found these extra knobs offer control of my tone that is not possible on passive instruments.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, bu I hope that rather than stating that something is a "waste of time and money" that we would more often hear "I don't see the value that xyz feature offers. Could someone give me insight on the advantage this feature offers?".

Or we could continue to make one sided statements that we really don't want dialogue about, but are seeking those who agree with us. How boring!


Well Put!

_________________
1972 Fender Jazz
Fodera Monarch Standard Special Madrone
Roscoe Century Custom 5
Bacchus Craft Series 5 String Jazz
Crews Maniac Sound Jackson 5 Fretless
Delray Bass Co. Custom P-Bass
NS Design Omnibass Electric Upright
Breedlove Solo Acoustic Fretless


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:20 pm
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tommygunn wrote:
bassclef wrote:
Obviously you do not know how to work an active bass. Yea, passive basses are nice, but I'd take an active bass over them anytime.

The biggest problem people have is they over eq their bass. You can get carried away even more with all these amps with tons of eq controls. Even with a passive bass. I say keep is simple. My Genz-Benz has a simple eq section which I keep flat. All the eq'ing I do is on the bass itself. Which is better because I can make adjustments on the fly while I am playing.

I would not trade the preamps in my Sadowsky basses for anything, or even the 18V in my American Deluxe Jazz FMT. Like I said, passive jazz basses sound great. But you plug in one of my bass and man, you are on a whole new level. More headroom, more tone, fatter and tighter bass, cut through the mix highs which is great for slap.

Call me bias, but I do not think there is a better preamp either in amp or bass that is better then the Sadowsky. Play one of those puppies and I think you would change your mind.

Also the 18V preamp in my Fender, it is very versatile. I can really dial in the tone to cut through the mix because of the 3-band eq. That changes gig to gig.

You did not mention what bass you tried. And yes there are allot of crappy preamp out there. But once you get into the higher end stuff, boy it is a whole new world!


echo...echo...echo

my ernie ball music man sterling (fretless) is passive and luv it to death! i can get tones out of that bass that have come to me in dreams! i would never give this bad boy up even for a fender (dramitic music), sorry guys :roll:

but ive played active fenders and love the tone possibilites!!!

i wanna get a cheap used mexican p bass and do a operation and make it active!


Simple Physics...a battery is a battery...even with an 18v system you have vast limitation in headroom and the components are not going to meet the quality of a studio-like 'wall driven' component. That is just the nature of the components & the power source you are using. That doesn't argue that the active on-board or out-board system isn't convenient, but if you A/B a quality passive bass through lets say a 'Langevin' or 'Manley' pre-amp, or for live, a Demeter pre-amp, against any 18v design,....well lets just say the amount of recordings speak for themselves.


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Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:00 pm
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contrabassist wrote:
Simple Physics...a battery is a battery...even with an 18v system you have vast limitation in headroom and the components are not going to meet the quality of a studio-like 'wall driven' component. That is just the nature of the components & the power source you are using. That doesn't argue that the active on-board or out-board system isn't convenient, but if you A/B a quality passive bass through lets say a 'Langevin' or 'Manley' pre-amp, or for live, a Demeter pre-amp, against any 18v design,....well lets just say the amount of recordings speak for themselves.


This statement only holds water depending on the equipment being used. The preamps in my Sadowsky basses are just that good. Even the Sadowsky Outboard Bass Preamp/DI Pedal are being used more and more in the studio and live with guys using passive basses. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with passive basses. I've played and heard some vintage jazz basses that sounded amazing. But for the bulk of the passive basses I've own (mostly Fenders), none come close to the sound of the Sadowsky's. But hey, that is just my opinion!

But ask someone like Will Lee........

_________________
1972 Fender Jazz
Fodera Monarch Standard Special Madrone
Roscoe Century Custom 5
Bacchus Craft Series 5 String Jazz
Crews Maniac Sound Jackson 5 Fretless
Delray Bass Co. Custom P-Bass
NS Design Omnibass Electric Upright
Breedlove Solo Acoustic Fretless


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:25 pm
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I'm done with active basses period and that's to include Sadowsky and anybody else for that matter also,however I do still have his Sadowsky Preamp/DI which is the way I've gone for the last 3yrs,and I never been sold on 18vlt systems having so much more ( so called) headroom.
I've heard quite of few 9vlt systems sound just as big as 18vlt systems


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:46 pm
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hands5 wrote:
I'm done with active basses period and that's to include Sadowsky and anybody else for that matter also,however I do still have his Sadowsky Preamp/DI which is the way I've gone for the last 3yrs,and I never been sold on 18vlt systems having so much more ( so called) headroom.
I've heard quite of few 9vlt systems sound just as big as 18vlt systems


mine is a 9vlt system and wouldnt change anything

u guys who want strictly passive are picky. i like passive and i like active, cant we just get along?

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for those who know who Shaun White and and Dan Kass...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0PqyvHx ... D&index=40


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:07 pm
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hands5 wrote:
I'm done with active basses period and that's to include Sadowsky and anybody else for that matter also,however I do still have his Sadowsky Preamp/DI which is the way I've gone for the last 3yrs,and I never been sold on 18vlt systems having so much more ( so called) headroom.
I've heard quite of few 9vlt systems sound just as big as 18vlt systems


You do realize what is inside your Sadowsky Preamp/DI......the same as in a Sadowsky bass, just in a metal box!

I do agree about 9V vs 18V. The 18V preamp in my Fender Deluxe is very good, but not as nearly as big and punchy sounding as the 9V in my Sadowsky. Also the Sadowsky's are much hotter, which probably due to the combination of the preamp and the Sadowsky pickups. I like the hotter signal 'cause I don't have to run the gain on my Genz-Benz as high. Thus a very clean signal.

But to be fair to those passive guys, I do prefer passive for my P-bass. But jazz basses.....active all the way!

_________________
1972 Fender Jazz
Fodera Monarch Standard Special Madrone
Roscoe Century Custom 5
Bacchus Craft Series 5 String Jazz
Crews Maniac Sound Jackson 5 Fretless
Delray Bass Co. Custom P-Bass
NS Design Omnibass Electric Upright
Breedlove Solo Acoustic Fretless


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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:03 am
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Man glad i stumbled on this thread.I have a Godin freeway 4 active have any of you here tried that, i,m impressed with the opinions here,what a cool place, i,d love to hear the Sadowski thanks ps i find my Gogin to be a bright bass


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Post subject: Why Active? There's no point!
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:35 pm
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Seriously! What is the point of active basses. I have an Ibanez Soundgear from like '05 and Im so fed up with the batteries and changing them. Ive always loved passive pickups. I play a '62 Jazz Bass 3-Tone sunburst and man it took forever to find it but its pickups are godly. '62 was the golden year for the Jazz.


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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:12 pm
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First I'll send a disclaimer that my opinion is solely my own and I'm not an audio engineer, a technical guy, or even a great bass player.

That said, it seems to me that in a hobby where such minutae things such as COO's on transistors, and metal percentages in cables can spark a heated debate, it's at least plausable that having active tone control on the instrument has a great deal to do with the sound quality, vs. not having access off the amp or eq. we arrange our pedals for ultimate tone, we choose at what part of the signal path we should add compression, and we all have superstitions regarding playing, and recording.

If the arguement solely boils down to, " Anything you can achieve onboard the bass can be achieved equally on the preamp", again, I disagree. Even if you set the tones to match exact, you're still using different components at different stages of the signal path, and components make the difference between the $10,000 and $ 200 pieces of gear, including eq's, compressors, and mics. The real question then is, "is the extra price of getting active electronics worth it ?" That's something you have to decide for yourself, and no post on these forums can change your mind. I personally don't see how a mic can cost $4000, but I'm not getting the kind of takes those pros get either. I do know that as a guitar player, I have 13 different distortions including 2 identical model Big Muff's solely because I hear the difference between them. In my case, as a bass player, I use a newer bassman that doesn't quite nail the perfect eq, after dialing in as close as I can, I tweek the sound with my active jazz bass. It gives me the extra thump the bassman lacks, and gives me a tone more similar to how I sound through my buddies nicer SWR amp. I should note that my bass is second hand, and the active electronics didnt' cost me a cent more.


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