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Post subject: RI 75' troubles. Please help.
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:21 pm
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Hey all!) I'm a newbie to this board, please let me join.

Sorry if I'm doubling already existing thread but the search never gave me anything covering this issue.

I play MIA 75 reissue jazz and recently joined new band. Most of the material being written in low CGCF tuning. And this downtuning just kills my tone!! It is not about action or playability or such issues. It loses sustain and definition. The bass sounds dull&cheap and no of that typical "right" JB overtones.
I've tried every possible string gauges, EQed myself in the corner with both semiparametric and graphic - didn't help. My rig is PJB M-500 head with single Ampeg SVT410hlf cab.

So now I'm facing a few possible truths:
1) it's impossible to employ Vintage tone and Modern tunings in the same time - passive basses don't go down in pitch
2) it's because JB is bolt-on bass
3) 35'' scale needed
4) it's because 75RI has only 3 bolts neck joint with Micro Tilt
5) this vintage pups can't do this job?

What do I miss?
Maybe some of you guys have experienced this? Maybe it's a sort of a common subject and I am the last one who wonders WTF is going on?

Please, tell me your thoughts on this. Thanks for your time in advance!

P.S. Sorry for my English, I live hell far from english speaking communities. :)


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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:30 pm
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Have you tried stringing your bass DAEB? that is the last four strings of a regular 5 string bass .

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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:54 pm
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Just a suggestion, cut strings short and tune it to C. Your pups aren't set up for extreme drop down tuning. Anything to D from E is ok, anything lower, nd to cut strings real short. Cons...can't tune higher than C. Your amp will nd to be adjusted from it's eq, unless you have an eq pedal. As far as 35" scale, it's a good start. I've played drop down tuning - still do - with my Fenders/Squiers, no issue, but I only drop down to D. When I had my SoundGear and BTB, I can drop down to C without changing the intonation and cutting strings short either. Good luck.

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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:18 pm
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Unfortunately you're going to put unbalanced stresses on the neck.
Going ahead with it anyway, your best bet would be to buy a 5 string set and use
B string tuned up to C (you will have to enlarge the nut slot)
use E string tuned up to G (or the A string tuned down to G)
the A string tuned up to C (or the D string tuned down to C)
the D string tuned up to F (or the G string tuned down to F)

Either way you're going to place odd forces on the neck.

Double check the nut slots and file them wider to get the strings to fit (DO NOT force them into the slots, DO NOT file them deeper)
Check the bow of the neck, no matter which way you string it, the neck is definitely going to bend forward or backward. (you WILL run the chance of the neck bending to one side or the other...thats something you really don't want)
Check intonation.

Or buy a 5 string bass and be done with it. :D
Good Luck!!


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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:26 pm
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I think a five string would be a better solution !

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1997 '51 P Bass Reissue
2012 American Standard Precision V
2013 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Fretless


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:12 am
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Franny57 wrote:
Unfortunately you're going to put unbalanced stresses on the neck.


He won't put unballanced stress on the neck it he cut the string short and tune it to C. He needs to get it intonated and set up right.

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VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:52 am
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I'm not following you on the "cut the string short"; sorry man, could you explain this? :?


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:20 pm
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Do you cut your strings when you get a new set put on? Well if you tune down, most of the time you cut it short so the strings aren't loose. When you tune down to C, you cut it shorter than drop tuning 1 step ( to D), note tho, not all strings can be cut too short. So if the strings are cut short, no looseness in it when it's tuned down. The con to this is that you can't tune it higher than C# because it will stretch the string (too much tension) too much and it might snap.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:22 pm
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You should cut the strings always and should have at least three turns around the tuner post . I read that on the Elixir strings web site .

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1996 50th Anniversary Jazz 5 (012 0f 500)
1997 '51 P Bass Reissue
2012 American Standard Precision V
2013 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Fretless


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:10 pm
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jlarocho wrote:
You should cut the strings always and should have at least three turns around the tuner post . I read that on the Elixir strings web site .


I learned something new, I usually have 2.5 turns on 'em. That's what I was taught when I changed my 1st set ever.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:31 pm
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Yes i always bend them cut beyond the bend, i like 3 solid wraps around each tuning post. I have done less than 3 (and sometimes i mess up and get less than 2, then i'm freaking out)
I can't wrap my head around the shorter string thing.
A string has 2 forces working on it, linear and downward.
In the linear force the back of the bridge or body (ball end) is an end point, and the tuning peg(post) is another end point. The downward force takes place at the saddle and nut. So no matter how long your string is, the 2 end points never change, cutting a string so it has 2 or less wraps creates a slippage problem, thus nullifying any advantage you sought to gain.
Mechanically the short string theory doesn't hold up. Physics also dictates against a short string.

I know you're talking about tension (linear force) but with 2 end points that are constant, maximum grip or holding power is mandatory for both ends that only too short of a string will effect.
If you want more tension while downtuning use a larger diameter string, thats the only way to get it as it stands right now.


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:38 pm
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Quote:
I think a five string would be a better solution !


And you dont need to mess with that '75 RI bass . Wouldnt it be nice to have another bass ? :wink:

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1996 50th Anniversary Jazz 5 (012 0f 500)
1997 '51 P Bass Reissue
2012 American Standard Precision V
2013 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Fretless


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:44 pm
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Franny57 wrote:
Yes i always bend them cut beyond the bend, i like 3 solid wraps around each tuning post. I have done less than 3 (and sometimes i mess up and get less than 2, then i'm freaking out)
I can't wrap my head around the shorter string thing.
A string has 2 forces working on it, linear and downward.
In the linear force the back of the bridge or body (ball end) is an end point, and the tuning peg(post) is another end point. The downward force takes place at the saddle and nut. So no matter how long your string is, the 2 end points never change, cutting a string so it has 2 or less wraps creates a slippage problem, thus nullifying any advantage you sought to gain.
Mechanically the short string theory doesn't hold up. Physics also dictates against a short string.

I know you're talking about tension (linear force) but with 2 end points that are constant, maximum grip or holding power is mandatory for both ends that only too short of a string will effect.
If you want more tension while downtuning use a larger diameter string, thats the only way to get it as it stands right now.


I'm not physicist, then I've also been wrong all this time. But cutting the string shorter leaves 2 wraps for drop C tuning had work in the past for me.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:46 pm
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jlarocho wrote:
Quote:
I think a five string would be a better solution !


And you dont need to mess with that '75 RI bass . Wouldnt it be nice to have another bass ? :wink:


Another bass for that drop C would be good if he went with a 35" scale. They work really well with drop down tuning.

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Rez(# 30916)
'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:59 pm
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Unfortunately, till someone invents something or other, the only way to increase tension is to move up in diameter.

Heres a chart thats absolutely neat once you understand it.
The formula applies to any type strings.
The charts and numbers only applies to their strings.

http://www.daddario.com/Resources/JDCDA ... _chart.pdf


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