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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:45 pm
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To keep things moving along, I pose another question. Since it seems that a lot of bassist agree the quality line has been blurred with recent models produced by Squire and similar second tier products, what are your thought on products like Line 6 Toneport, Toneworks PX4D et al, as a way of producing top end sound? I own both and have found both to be exceptional tools for shaping my sound. In fact, I believe the combination of an affordable, well made bass and one of these amp modelers produces a sound that more credibly sounds like a bass that cost 3 times as much, since it is possible to actually produce a sonically matched sound, from the pickups to the amp. How does a purists feel about this pseudo sound? Some may think this argument to be irrelevant, but some must agree that some instruments cannot be emulated, otherwise why would anyone pay thousands of dollars for a "vintage" instruments (I concede in advance that their are collectors out there)?


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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:37 am
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I have never used Line 6 products . I can tell you about Digitech's BP80 which I have . It has like 10 or more amp modelers but I dont like to use them . Of all the modelers there are only a few that I like the sound good . The thing is that I prefer the straight sound from my basses . I turn off the amp modelers in one of the presets and that's what I basically use . Only eq(set flat with just a pinch of bass) and noise gate and only for practicing or recording . And of course for the octaver and the basic effects . But live I go direct to my amp .

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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:31 pm
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Test4echo wrote:
I'd put my "Crafted In Japan" Geddy against anything of equal value that was made in America. I think I'd win.

Test,


For the most part MIJ/CIJ Fenders are better than MIM, some will say, alot of the MIJ/CIJ rivals quality of the MIA now. I'll put my MIJ against any MIA from the same vintage, and I would say it has better quality than the MIA, but again, the '80s weren't Fender's good decade.

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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:50 am
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In general, I agree with your points. However, I have played some low end basses that sounded as good or better than some higher priced ones. You are right about feel being extremely important. If the bass doesn't feel right you won't enjoy playing it.

Having said all that I currently play:
1976 Fender Precision
1978 Fender Jazz
1997 Alembic 5 String

They all feel and sound different but I enjoy all of them


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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:55 am
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Rockbassist wrote:
In general, I agree with your points. However, I have played some low end basses that sounded as good or better than some higher priced ones. You are right about feel being extremely important. If the bass doesn't feel right you won't enjoy playing it.

Having said all that I currently play:
1976 Fender Precision
1978 Fender Jazz
1997 Alembic 5 String

They all feel and sound different but I enjoy all of them


I agree with you, feel has a lot to do with what I own now. My Squier VM Jazz Bass is really great for what it cost.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:44 am
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PowerJazzBass wrote:
Rockbassist wrote:
In general, I agree with your points. However, I have played some low end basses that sounded as good or better than some higher priced ones. You are right about feel being extremely important. If the bass doesn't feel right you won't enjoy playing it.

Having said all that I currently play:
1976 Fender Precision
1978 Fender Jazz
1997 Alembic 5 String

They all feel and sound different but I enjoy all of them


I agree with you, feel has a lot to do with what I own now. My Squier VM Jazz Bass is really great for what it cost.


Yeah a $300 Squier is never going to be as nice as a $3,000 Custom Shop Fender but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy and gig a Squier, their stuff is very playable these days. I have several high end basses AND two Squiers that I enjoy.


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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:11 pm
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I've been so surprised by the higher end Squiers I ordered a Deluxe Active V 5 string. They are that good. Like the quote above me said, they're not $3000 custom shop basses, but they are worth the money, if not more. They perform at MIM if not better level for less price.

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'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:02 pm
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PowerJazzBass wrote:
I've been so surprised by the higher end Squiers I ordered a Deluxe Active V 5 string. They are that good. Like the quote above me said, they're not $3000 custom shop basses, but they are worth the money, if not more. They perform at MIM if not better level for less price.


Yeah, I'm really curious about that new Squier "classic vibe" jazz bass. Looks great and I wouldn't be surprised if it played and sounded every bit as good a $600 MIM jazz.


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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:05 pm
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MM, the crazy part about it is, it looks like the '62 Jazz Bass. I was looking on the Bass Emporium site, when you click on the Fender stuff, it also pulls up the Squiers. Same color and all.

Here are the links:
http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=0131800305

http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=0303075505

Edits for the link addresses.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


Last edited by PowerJazzBass on Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:08 pm
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PowerJazzBass wrote:
MM, the crazy part about it is, it looks like the '62 Jazz Bass. I was looking on the Bass Emporium site, when you click on the Fender stuff, it also pulls up the Squiers. Same color and all.



Dig!

http://www.theperfectbass.com/explore.c ... &SS=1&CR=Y

:D


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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:16 pm
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Those Squiers/Fender, different saddles I think, where the Squier has the brass saddles.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:05 pm
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You have to check the photos from sweetwater.com ! 8)

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1997 '51 P Bass Reissue
2012 American Standard Precision V
2013 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Fretless


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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:10 pm
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I've ck'd it there before - Sweetwater. Hey did you see I post the Stu Hamm Urge I in the Squier forum I think.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Post subject: Re: The Quality Difference
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:45 pm
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Kevmove wrote:
So over the weekend I learned the meaning of "Bass Withdrawal". If you have a moment, allow me to muse...

I was playing my MIM Jazz Bass, when suddenly I hear massive fret buzz! I looked for the culprit and discovered that the nut broke (all of you who are thinking of making a joke or pun, its been said already). So after investigating my options, I trucked on over to GC to get it repaired. While I was there, I took the opportunity to conduct an experiment: I tried out all the $1,000 and above Fenders. People are always going on and on about how you don't need to spend a lot on a bass or its not the equipment, its the player, etc. As much as I want to buy into this line of thinking, I can't help but point out that if I buy a cheaper version of an expensive car, then that's what I have, and I will soon find out what was left out (I actually know this one from experience). I believe this to be true with Bass Guitars as well.

I played about 15 bass guitars of different price ranges. Then I came back 2 days later and played them again. What did I learn?

1. The feel of an instrument is probably more important than anything else. Regardless of price tag, you can't make a bass feel right. I sensed that my ability to "get in tune" with each instrument was more related to touch than tone. Some of the instruments I played sounded incredible, but I couldn't get past how they felt in my hand.

2. Quality parts = Quality Sound. For example, my MIM had a plastic nut. The MIA has a bone nut. Is it likely that a plastic nut will produce a sound that is sonically superior to a bone nut? Which leads to my point: buying a cheaper bass, then modding it generally will not produce a sonically superior bass. Correction: when a cheaper bass is modded to the point that it becomes superior to the top line brand, usually a new brand is created, because everyone wants a bass modded like (fill in the blank)

3. $400 bass do not sound as good or better than a $1,400 bass. I played several MIM then several MIA versions of Fenders and their was really no comparison. An accomplished player may be able to make an inexpensive bass sound great, but it is almost universally accepted that if you buy a cheaper bass, you should change the pickups and the bridge. I know that getting the cheaper bass then modding it may be more economical way to the instrument of your dreams. But let's look at it from this perspective: how many Bass Heroes play cheap basses that they modded? How many player have chosen to own and only play a stock Squire? If I have $1400 to spend will I make out better buying a cheap bass then modding than I could buying a $1400 bass?

4. I am completely biased when it comes to Fender products. In the midst of all this test driving, I realized that despite having another bass at home (Yamaha RBX 765A), I really missed not having my Fender J Bass, which is safely at home with a brand new custom cut BONE nut. :)

I hope the ramblings of one Fender Bass Madman provokes much conversation. I am weary of the endless threads that say "I took a piece of crap bass and turned it into a funk machine that sounds better than the top of the line Fender". I will start by saying, "I have a MIM Fender J Bass that has MIA Fender Pickups and a Bone Nut and I am very satisfied with the sound. I spent $500 on this setup, but if I had the funds, I would buy a 2008 MIA P Bass in a heartbeat." Who's next?


You covered and pretty much answered your own questions through your well-written comments.

Jumping from a Standard to an American Standard is a big jump in every aspect of the instrument.

Knowing that the musician is the biggest part of the equation, it can’t hurt to have the highest quality instrument that is affordable.

Details are all very important in regards to tone & function. Remember that many small details add up to a lot of impact in regards to the quality of the instrument. When you get past the American Standards, the quality differences become much tighter than the big jump from the Standard to the American Standard. In many cases the extras are more in relation to aesthetics than tone & function. In the case of the Custom Shop instruments, you do have Master Builders involved with the production of the instrument. As long as the instrument is using the same quality components, there is going to be an even smaller difference between the instruments. Of course in the case of the Custom Shop, you can have it the way you want it, if you have the time and the budget.

Check out the award winning review of the MIA basses...

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/fende ... y-08/35503


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:42 pm
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Nice article. I've not stopped at the Bass Player site in awhile. Thanks Contrabassist.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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