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Post subject: Strings Action Question
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:10 pm
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Hi everyone, I'm new here and just got myself a used 2014 MIM Jazz Bass Deluxe V. The previous owner had some EB 45-135 strings on the bass and the action at the 12th fret is kinda too high for my liking (or rather lazy fingers lol). Since the strings still had some life in it, I thought I'd leave them on for a while. The bridge height setting is already quite low with the B string at the lowest possible. I've then tried tightening the truss rod and so far have turned it like about 3/4 turn (1/4 each try) in total, but the action is still high and if I'm not mistaken, it didn't seem to improve. I don't really have proper tools so am using just a steel ruler to measure the gap between the bottom of the string against the top of the 12th fret. It's now still about 3-4mm for the B.
Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong and also how do I know when the truss rod has reached its limit for tightening. I've heard that the nut will spring back when it has reached the limit, but even right now, it's kinda tight, and this is the first time I'm adjusting a truss rod. :) Appreciate any help I can get. Thanks in advance!


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:14 pm
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3/4 of a turn is a lot.
That's 3 good swings with the key?
That's a lot.
It's even more so if no change has occurred.
That gives me pause.

Give it a day to settle in but not much longer.
If it continues to show no change I would crank it back that 3/4 of a turn and have a professional look at it.
With 3/4 of a turn there should definitely be a significant and noticeable difference.
If there's no difference something else may be wrong.
Without having the guitar in my hands it's hard to speculate what that may be.

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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:54 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
3/4 of a turn is a lot.
That's 3 good swings with the key?
That's a lot.
It's even more so if no change has occurred.
That gives me pause.

Give it a day to settle in but not much longer.
If it continues to show no change I would crank it back that 3/4 of a turn and have a professional look at it.
With 3/4 of a turn there should definitely be a significant and noticeable difference.
If there's no difference something else may be wrong.
Without having the guitar in my hands it's hard to speculate what that may be.


That's what I thought too. Am thinking of installing new 45-130 strings and see if the action improves. If I'm not mistaken, heavier gage strings should result in higher action if nothing else is adjusted, am I getting it right?


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:27 pm
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First of all, I support BMW-KTM's suggestion of giving the bass a professional setup.
It appears to me that the previous owner either had non-mainline setup preferences, or didn't know how to set up a bass properly. And since you're new at setups, it would be a lot easier to learn by tweaking a well setup bass than it is to fix one with problems.

On the basics, the truss rod is meant to control the bend of a neck. String tension pulls the neck to curve in one direction, the truss rod compensates this so the neck is a) straight (that was the habit in the good ole days) or b) has a controlled relief.
Action (= string height) is controlled with string saddles.
Although adjusting the truss rod affects the height of the strings, those adjustments have a different purpose - adjusting string height with the truss rod is often just hiding the real setup problem.

Now, you say that the B-string saddle is as low as it goes. That usually suggests that the bass needs a shim to change the neck angle - or the neck joint screws may not be properly tightened.
One more reason for investing the typical 80ish $£€ for the pro setup.

Here's a link to Fender Bass Guitar Setup Guide
Note that the setup procedures are done in a certain order.


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:55 pm
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Thanks for the suggestion of sending it for a pro setup. I'll do it eventually but since the luthier will take a couple of weeks and I'm still not ready to part with my bass for that long, I'll make do with it for now.
I've changed the old strings (50-135) to a new set of Dunlop Stainless Steel 45-130, hoping to reduce the strings action, but besides finding the new SS strings being super rough on my fingers, I also saw that it did not reduce the action much.
Anyway, I've tightened the truss rod by another 1/2 rotation and now the action of the B string at 12th is about 2.5mm to slightly below 3mm, which I'm ok with for now, although about 2mm would be much nicer.
Looking from the headstock down, there is still a slight bow (normal, no?) and there's slight buzz although not excessive only when I play hard.


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:15 am
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So, you're a gung-ho, go-get, DIY guy... (Welcome to the club.) :wink:

OK.
"Slight bow" in the neck; what's that if measured in the way given in the Fender Bass setup guide? And a side note to this, truss rods can break when tightened too much - although it's not at all common.
"Slight buzz although not excessive", on which frets or what neck area? (Buzzing when played open, low frets, mid-neck, high frets are symptoms of different things which need different corrections...)

Now, read the effing setup guide! :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:45 am
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Buzz isn't that bad after all, especially when I don't play hard so it's ok. In fact it's not obvious at all with my typical playing style. I don't have a feeler gage to measure the gap when pressing down on both ends of the fretboard but my guesstimate is about 0.5mm.
LOL I've read the setup guide but still don't have the guts to do the neck shimming thingy... I reckon that's what I'll need to do to eventually..


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:05 am
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Hmm.
Diagnosing via the interweb is always guessing, so proceed with caution, and no offence, and I'm probably just rambling without purpose, etc.
But anyways, as a mental exercise:

At this point you have tightened the (standard type, one-way) truss rod (3/4 + 1/2 =) one full and a quarter turn, which is a real big adjustment. And your relief is still about double to the factory recommendation.

The shim mentioned previously won't do anything about the relief. It was a possible idea for getting the B-string saddle (other saddles too, of course) from the 'as low as it can be' to a position where you could adjust the action (if that's still needed after the relief adjusting).

It sounds to me (considering also the 'buzzing when played with a harder attack') that you got the bass playable, but it doesn't yet seem to be anywhere near to what I'd call a perfect setup.


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:58 am
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danieliew wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion of sending it for a pro setup. I'll do it eventually but since the luthier will take a couple of weeks and I'm still not ready to part with my bass for that long, I'll make do with it for now.
I've changed the old strings (50-135) to a new set of Dunlop Stainless Steel 45-130, hoping to reduce the strings action, but besides finding the new SS strings being super rough on my fingers, I also saw that it did not reduce the action much.
Anyway, I've tightened the truss rod by another 1/2 rotation and now the action of the B string at 12th is about 2.5mm to slightly below 3mm, which I'm ok with for now, although about 2mm would be much nicer.
Looking from the headstock down, there is still a slight bow (normal, no?) and there's slight buzz although not excessive only when I play hard.

Holy Moly! For the love of Leo Fender, STOP! Don't be a rutabaga. Take your bass to a luthier NOW! The bass you save will be your own.

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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:23 am
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Did the previous owner ship it to you, or did you pick it up in person?

Many people loosen the strings and slack the rod before shipping. In that situation, the rod may need a lot of tightening. If for example, the rod has been loosened by 3 full turns, it would need to be tightened a full 3 turns.

Normally, yes a rod should only need 1/8 to 1/4 turn at most. But that's normally, where the rod has been initially adjusted properly and you're just compensating for seasonal changes in humidity, or for a change in string gauge.

Even if you picked it up in person, it's very possible the rod was way too slack when you got it. The previous owner may have been clueless. Or maybe he primarily plays acoustic bass and liked a crazy high action with lots of relief.


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Post subject: Re: Strings Action Question
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:54 pm
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I picked it up from the previous owner myself. Tested the action and found it quite high but the previous owner liked it that way.
The current setup, still shimmed using 2 pcs of business card and the action at 12th fret is slightly more than 2mm. I'm quite happy with it now.
My only concern now is, did I tighten the rod too much and will the neck warp unevenly because of that?


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