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Post subject: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:25 pm
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Now, though I'm new to this forum, I'm pretty aware of the idea of some basses/guitars "have it" and others don't.

But still, this was doing it for me at one point and isn't any longer (to the point I have it for sale on one site) but, before I do that, was wondering.

It's the one MF/GC sells (which went up from about 600 to 700 with the natural finish and the staggered pups)

Do you guys really notice THAT much tone difference between bass models? My MIM p-bass seems to be awesome w/o a pickup change. But even wasting WAY too much money on string changes, this is not what I thought it was prior to a string change.

I'm pretty handy with setups, so I'm puzzled.


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:39 am
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superstratlover wrote:
Now, though I'm new to this forum, I'm pretty aware of the idea of some basses/guitars "have it" and others don't.

But still, this was doing it for me at one point and isn't any longer (to the point I have it for sale on one site) but, before I do that, was wondering.

It's the one MF/GC sells (which went up from about 600 to 700 with the natural finish and the staggered pups)

Do you guys really notice THAT much tone difference between bass models? My MIM p-bass seems to be awesome w/o a pickup change. But even wasting WAY too much money on string changes, this is not what I thought it was prior to a string change.

I'm pretty handy with setups, so I'm puzzled.


I think strings have more of a contributing factor to sound differences, than pups, to a point.

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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:38 pm
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You might want to specify what is different about your tone.
Or perhaps the tone has not changed but your taste in tone has?

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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:47 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
You might want to specify what is different about your tone.
Or perhaps the tone has not changed but your taste in tone has?


Bravo! Good point. 8)

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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 pm
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haha! Now I have too many responses.

Tough to quantify over the web.

@strings: Maybe. I've been playing since forever and string tone is important. But there is something else I can't put my finger on. Unlike the nearly identical p-bass (well, they are both MIM similar price point) it's been ranging drastically with different strings, none of which I like. On that p-bass, cobalt (or even regular) EB's have been great.

I've tried 40-100's, 45-100's, 45-105 (yes, even Fender's which were too stiff imho) and nothing seems to gel right.

I doubt anyone can help me here as this is totally personal preference, but I hear about "that brand" or "that vintage" and as long as I've been playing, I'm just not sure anymore.

(edit, sorry) "Dull" would be my way of explaining it. It's not common for my basses.


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:59 pm
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You may consider trying D'Addario ETB92 Nylon Tapewounds. (.50, .65, .85, .105) They aren't to bad. Here on a MIM, Mustang PJ.

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Last edited by Mr. Nylon on Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:08 am
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Oh, just because I forgot about this thread, I do appreciate the answers.

I think the main thing would be a pup replacement at this time, but mentally I like the idea of "staggered" poles so worried about if I'd be getting worse or better.

Thanks again.


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:00 am
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Before going the pickup swap route, try one set of Thomastik Infeld PowerBass EB344 roundwound strings. They are hot. They play great with medium tension. The street price is just under 60 dollars US per set. Hands down my all time favorite round and prefer them over the better selling and more expensive Thomastik Infeld Jazz Flat JF344 set which I keep on one active bass. Both are great sets, both are pricey and both last a very very long time which negates the higher initial cost since you will be using them for at least SIX TIMES as long as a set of about anything else. If DULL is the problem the Power Bass EB344 set from T.I. might be the cure. You will be amazed at how long they last.


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:47 pm
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I've always wanted to try a set, but been scared.

Strange gauge. The 80/3rd string seems mighty light compared to the 4th. Is there a reason for that?


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:49 pm
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
You may consider trying D'Addario ETB92 Nylon Tapewounds. (.50, .65, .85, .105) They aren't to bad. Here on a MIM, Spl. Edition White Opal Jazz.

ImageImage


That thing is lovely!


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:46 pm
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superstratlover wrote:
Mr. Nylon wrote:
You may consider trying D'Addario ETB92 Nylon Tapewounds. (.50, .65, .85, .105) They aren't to bad. Here on a MIM, Mustang PJ

Image

That thing is lovely!


Thanks, I like it with the ETB92 Nylons onboard. I would be more apt to try string change outs, before pup change outs. I'm partial to the MIM Jazz pups from the factory.

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Last edited by Mr. Nylon on Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:59 am
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superstratlover wrote:
I've always wanted to try a set, but been scared.

Strange gauge. The 80/3rd string seems mighty light compared to the 4th. Is there a reason for that?


(Edited for grammar AND to add expanded content.)

The TI EB344 string gauges may seem oddball but are made that way so that from day one they have volume and tonal balance from string to string in light of the materials used. There is an approximate precedent for the gauges they use I will bring up shortly.

Yes the typical set made the typical way using typical materials is .045, .065, .085, .105. These are no doubt the strings you've been using without finding the tone you are seeking. But the Thomastik-Infeld Power Bass EB344 is NOT a typical set made the typical way using typical materials. When installing Power Bass the first time you will likely notice that they are heavier in weight than the other brand strings you are taking off. They have an exclusive heft to them in hand, so obviously they are denser. So the TI Power Bass EB344 set had to be .047, .068, .080, .107 or it would sound unbalanced. One approximate gauge precedent is the Rotosound Swing Bass RS66 set which is .045, .065, .080, .105. So the 3rd and 4th string gauges in those particular TI and Roto sets are VERY close. The gauge change is not so severe that you have to do nut work and either set safely nestle into a factory slotted Fender bass nut.

Many players like a brighter than mainstream clear mud-free tone in a roundwound. Since the 1960's that quest led many bassist to a Rotosound Swing Bass 66 set. Because they are so popular and go dead so fast the Rotos are probably the number one selling roundwound bass set in the world. Because they are so expensive most players never even try the Power Bass set, even though their much longer life alone more than makes up for the initial higher price. The TI Power Bass set is actually much cheaper to use in the long run than any other round. Plus you are not changing strings every few weeks with the Power Bass set. There are equally devoted people who love the Roto Swing Bass set as much as I like the Power Bass and just change strings way more often because that is the way they have always done it. When I started using TI strings about 2003 they were way cheaper than today. Yes TI strings in general are more expensive, but the Power Bass set is truly worth it to me.

Tone begins when the string is plucked or picked. So the primary tonal factors are playing style and strings. Pickups are the secondary factor and a pickup will NEVER pick up what is not there in the first place. So if you want highs first make sure you have bright strings. And yes, there are tonal response differences between pickup types I will bring up later. I have been playing since 1968 and I've used countless string sets from almost every mainline brand. I'm convinced there is not a better bright sounding set than Power Bass on a passive bass for me.

Frequently you may notice on other sets when new that some individual strings are louder or softer, have different tonal voicing or even more or less sustain than the others in the same set and you have to wait a week or two for them to settle in and balance out. Sometimes the mismatch is so bad it sounds like you put mixed strings from 2 or 3 different sets on your instrument. But there is no settle in period with the TI Power Bass set. It sounds nicely balanced and bright from day one being equally touch responsive from string to string.

You have to buy strings anyway so here is a suggestion. Buy a $20 set of Rotosound Swing Bass 66's. If you like that tone then when it starts to fade in 3 weeks get a set of Thomastik EB344 Power Bass which will last at least 6 and up to 12 times longer before they start to lose zing. If you try the Swing Bass 66 Rotosound set and they did not do it for you tonally when new then the TI EB344 Power Bass set likely will not either. The two sets have similar tonal character when brand new, but there are several important long term differences. The EB344 is nickle plated making it gentler on frets and fingers, and is the longest lasting round on the market that I know about. The two sets while feeling different and behaving differently due different tension, materials and construction do have a lot of tonal similarity when both sets are new though. While the tone is not identical both have a bright airy tone with no mud. The Power Bass is a little louder, but volume isn't everything. It is a safe bet that if you do not like the Swing Bass type tone when the set is new that you won't like the TI Power Bass either.

SIDEBAR: Do not cheap out and think the INFELD SUPER ALLOY IN344 set might be close to the Thomastik-Infeld EB344 Power Bass set because it is a way different set. It isn't that they sound bad because frankly there ARE far worse sets than the IN344, but it is completely different from the EB344 Power Bass set. As to how long the IN344 set lasts I can not attest because about 2 days is all I used them before switching that instrument back to Power Bass. I consider the IN344 set to be intended for people who like a more mainstream tone and nothing extreme. They really sound pretty close to Fender or D'Addario or Ernie Ball or GHS rounds.

Strings are a very personal thing. What I like you may not. Sort of like milkshakes, everyone has a favorite flavor. Some have not found their favorite string sets yet and will just have to find out for themselves.

Now that I have beaten the string thing to death, what if it does not help? Next steps if bright strings do not do it for you is to get your amp checked out. The preamp tube could be dying, the EQ defective or the cab horn burned out. If the amp and cab check out fine then maybe schedule a hearing test. Also do not neglect to use a good quality low capacitance cable with any passive bass because a 25 foot cheap cable will kill highs/upper mids on a passive instrument as surely as rolling off the treble control. If you are using a $15 cable, that might be part of the problem. A low capacitance cable is not as critical on an active bass. After all that checks out then look at a pickup swap.

I am not sure about your particular pickup set because that is not the typical garden variety MIM Jazz pickup set pictured, but many MIM bass pickups use ceramic magnets instead of alnico magnets as used in traditional Fender USA pickups. Ceramic bass pickups have a high output level but can be heavy on the lower mids, weaker on upper mids and lack treble entirely. Alnico pickups tend to have a better frequency spectrum balance with more upper mids, treble or what I call "air" than ceramics. Air is that indescribable little sparkle overtone in the upper mid range that sounds like the note is alive and breathing.

Try a Fender USA pickup pair, but NOT the Noiseless. Stacked coil, split coil and Noiseless pickups are not single coil pickups and instead are in fact humbuckers in disguise and will remind you more of a P-Bass tone than a Jazz tone. Stick to a traditional old school Fender single coil with the word VINTAGE or ORIGINAL in the name.

With Seymour Duncan the VINTAGE or ANTIQUITY work well but the VINTAGE have slightly higher output and are actually cheaper. They both have about the same fidelity. Also if you want some extra oomph the Duncan Quarter Pound set with oversized Alnico pole pieces work but tend to emphasize lows and highs while the mids are diminished a hair, almost like a gently mid scooped EQ setting, still it is a very powerful and popular voicing.

If you decide to go the custom pickup winding route do avoid the temptation to order overwound. Overwinding will make a pickup louder, but will also diminish the upper mids and treble. When the typical stage bass amp was 100 watts at the most CBS began employing overwinding to get more volume from the same instrument design and sell new model basses. With the amps and cabs of the day nobody was missing the upper mids because nobody was using horns then and cab/driver design was not what it is today.

With today's vastly more powerful amps there is really no logical reason for using overwound pickups unless you intentionally want to mute your upper mids. So while custom winding shops may offer overwinding, I do NOT recommend it at all on any bass pickups. The VINTAGE WIND alnico type single coil Jazz pickups are the fullest fidelity ones.

But what about single coil hum? You can quiet that a great deal by simply adding copper foil shielding to ground in pickup cavities, control cavity and on the back of the pickguard. With a metal control plate there is no need to copper foil it. Cavity shielding should overlap the lip of the cavity so the back of the pickguard or the control plate will contact the foil. At the bridge pickup position you do not need to overlap the foil. Full shielding materials will be about $20 or less from numerous online parts dealers. Do the shielding right and you will noticeably reduce hum. It won't be completely silent but it will be improved. Adding the vintage chrome pickup and bridge covers will not hurt either but will get in the way of playing right over the pickups which is where some good tones live. (Here is a good link on how to shield a single coil Strat, but the principles and techniques to shield a single coil bass properly are identical, except on a first generation Precision Bass where you can skip shielding the back of the pickguard entirely because it is of no benefit at all. http://www.artandtechnology.com.au/guitar/shielding-strat.html )


Last edited by brotherdave on Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:58 pm
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Thanks very much for the information!


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:33 pm
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You know, I've been playing bass (and not bad either) for a long time. I don't understand things.

I cheaped out and got a standard garden-variety set of EB's today and it's like having a new instrument.

Please don't ask my to explain, I'm embarrassed enough. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: MIM Jazz bass (might as well ask about tone)
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:04 pm
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Not surprising at all, strings can make a difference. Good playing with your EB's. Image

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