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 Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe III - Schematic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:26 pm 
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Hi
Does anyone have the schematics for the new Hot Rod Deluxe III? I am just curious to see whether the advertised changes to the tone circuit, correspond to suggested modifications on various sites.

I own a special edition Texas Red HRD from which I will not part. I just wonder if the "new tone circuit" is what I have in mind and whether it could be retrofitted.

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 Post subject: HRDlx III schematic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Hi Zoltan Varga,

You probably won't find a schematic of the new circuit. It seems that Fender doesn't release new schematics when there is a board revision. I think that for the most part, the HRDlx III has a new speaker, a new volume pot and treble pot with a different taper, and some modification to the tone circuit, maybe just different value caps. Most of the mods that I've seen for the HRDlx include tone stack caps, that might be part of the improvements that Fender made. Most of the difference in sound though would be the new speaker, I have the same speaker in the extension cab, and it sounds very different than the Gold reissue in my '98 HRDlx. :)

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 Post subject: Re: HRDlx III schematic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:07 pm 
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shimmilou wrote:
I think that for the most part, the HRDlx III has a new speaker, ... and some modification to the tone circuit, maybe just different value caps. Most of the mods that I've seen for the HRDlx include tone stack caps, that might be part of the improvements that Fender made. Most of the difference in sound though would be the new speaker, I have the same speaker in the extension cab, and it sounds very different than the Gold reissue in my '98 HRDlx. :)


Thanks shimmilou - Yes - it's precicely the new tone stack cap values I'm interested in, in the HRD III , although I believe there might also be some changes to R/C elements in the drive channels to achieve a tighter drive sound.
The special edition I own has the same celestion speaker as the III line. So I'm happy that way. The clean is stellar and I love it. However, the drive sound is still too flabby, and that could be fixed with changes to the circuitry. Having tried the new series in the local GC, I like the new series, but I don't want to part with my beloved special edition combo ;-)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:26 pm 
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I put new tone stack caps in mine recently, and it helped the clean and drive channels somewhat, better clarity for sure. I had never really liked the drive channel in my amp, until I tried it with that Celestion G12P 80 speaker, big difference, and that's with my stock tubes. Have you thought about trying different tubes to improve the drive channel? If you have the 12AX7WA preamp tubes like mine, the sound will be pretty clean, harder to get good drive (but that's what I want). The stock Groove Tubes might be better for clean than drive, what color is the label on the output tubes?. The red labels are for a cleaner sound, blue for driven sound (earlier breakup). Also the factory bias might be on the cold side for you, which means cleaner sound (flabby drive). :idea:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:46 pm 
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shimmilou wrote:
I had never really liked the drive channel in my amp, until I tried it with that Celestion G12P 80 speaker, big difference, and that's with my stock tubes. Have you thought about trying different tubes to improve the drive channel? If you have the 12AX7WA preamp tubes like mine, the sound will be pretty clean, harder to get good drive (but that's what I want). The stock Groove Tubes might be better for clean than drive, what color is the label on the output tubes?. The red labels are for a cleaner sound, blue for driven sound (earlier breakup). Also the factory bias might be on the cold side for you, which means cleaner sound (flabby drive). :idea:


YES! In fact I played around with tubes quite a bit. In the preamp, I settled on Mesa/Boogie (i.e. Chinese) 12AT7s in V1, a 12AX7 in V2 and the stock Fender in V3 (interchangeable with a JJ in V3). In the power tube section, I tested going from the stock power tubes to 6V6 JJs and TAD 6V6 tubes, but ended up settling on EL84s and yellow jacket adaptors. For regular room volume I found Mesa Boogie EL84s OK, but recently I bought a HotPlate and find their distortion too shrill when I attenuate the volume. With the Hot Plate, I plan to go back to JJ EL84, and also retest the 6V6es and stock PTs.....

Still - I never really enjoyed the drive channels in ANY combination and wanted to ask a certified technician to change caps and resistors to some of the suggested modifications on the various fora. However, now that the new III line came out, I wonder if Fender might have used the wisdom out in the web and already implemented some of these circuit modifications in the new line. Note - I think the actual tone stack might not have been altered at all/all that much. The clean Channel on the new III sounds more or less the same to me. For the Drive channels to become nicer (i.e. usable ;-) ) one would have to change other RC elements in those circuits as well....


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:29 pm 
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You know, V2 would affect the drive channel the most. Maybe try the Chinese tube in V2. The newer (9th gen?) Chinese tubes have lots more breakup than the 12AX7 (look closely and see if yours has a 12AX7WC, or 12AX7WA, or what in V2). Half of that tube is only used for the drive channel. I would be very interested to know exactly what circuit mods were made also. Check out the schematic for the original, it's relatively simple, if you're interested.

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Hot_Rod_Deluxe_Schematic.pdf

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:29 pm 
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May be in the "notice" when you buy it, there is the last revision of schematic. It was like this with my BDRI and my Vox!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Tissan wrote:
May be in the "notice" when you buy it, there is the last revision of schematic. It was like this with my BDRI and my Vox!


mmm - OK - we may need someone who bought an amp recently... :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:51 pm 
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shimmilou wrote:
You know, V2 would affect the drive channel the most. Maybe try the Chinese tube in V2. The newer (9th gen?) Chinese tubes have lots more breakup than the 12AX7 (look closely and see if yours has a 12AX7WC, or 12AX7WA, or what in V2). Half of that tube is only used for the drive channel. I would be very interested to know exactly what circuit mods were made also. Check out the schematic for the original, it's relatively simple, if you're interested.

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Hot_Rod_Deluxe_Schematic.pdf


right - I'll give that a try. Good point. I'll report how it went.

:-D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:41 pm 
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try a tung sol Russian reissue on V2
you will be surprised :wink:


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