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 Post subject: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:01 am 
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hey I was wondering if someone could give me some pointers on what I should be using for a treble bleed circuit on my strat that I'm completely rewiring... 250k pots and fender hot noiseless pickups.. What values should I be using for the cap and resistor in the treble bleed and what is the difference between wiring them parallel or in series?


Thanks for the help!!! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:56 am 
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Do this instead of the treble bleed:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... aster.aspx

I have all my guitars wired this way and it sounds better than the treble bleed. With the treble bleed as you turn the volume down you actually lose bass and things sound very tinny.

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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:29 am 
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That looks like an interesting mod bluesky, I'm half tempted to give it a try. I'm starting to get tired of the treble bleed on my strat.

Has anyone tried this mod?

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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:25 am 
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The one thing im known for at the shop, is my treble bleed circuits, and that's because I make them custom for each guitar. The values for what works for each guitar can swing wildly. Start with all the recommended values, and buy some resisors, from 100K on up to 330k. Each guitar will be different in what it requires. Strats tend to need lower values, ifyou use one with a value too high, it will actually ADD treble as you roll down the volume as opposed to just mitigatig its lost. It will make it sound think.
Also, with the resistors; these are used strictly to adjust the taper of the pot. Sometimes a volume kit will make a normal acting pot, one that gradually goes up and down, and make it so; maybe from 1-5 you dont hear much of any change, then from 6-10, it goes right up, or vice versa. Not all gutiars will need the resistor.

But also, some that do require the resistor work best when its wired to the cap in parallel (one leg from one resistor is wrapped around one leg of the cap, and the other leg is wrapped around the other pot). Some work better in series (you solder one leg of the cap to one leg of the resistor, and thats it, so It will be one long component).

Go buy a handful of caps and resistors, open the pickguard, hook a pair of alligator clips to the lugs of the pot, let the 2 wires hang out, and scew the pickguard down, and tune to pitch. Now you can try all the different combinatinos without soldering, then removing and having to resolder.

You see a lot of "Volume Kits" on eBay that have one for humbuckers, and one for single coils, while this is better than one size fits all, it still isnt true. What works on one strat, may not on another, even with the same pickups. The pots have something to do with it, its hard to match two pots values identical.

This is the right way to do it, and the way to get the kit that will retain the treble without adversely having a bad affect to the taper of the volume pot.
The last one i did was for a guy who had an Am Deluxe completely overhauld; Lollar pickups, new pots, caps, series/parallel, etc. He had mhy friend sit with a pile of pots, and measure them to get the 2 that were" exactly the same value" this obvioulsy didnt work. But the pots they put in, had a real bad taper. The volume only really gradally rolled off from 10-6, after which it just dropped off completely. I told him it may make the taper worse. But i put together 4 different kits; 2 different values, then each value had one wired in series, and the other in parallel. Once i put the second one in series, i hit a chord and rolled down the volume,and everyones eyse widend. IT was perfect. As i rolled down the volume on the guitar, the guy rolled down the volume on the amp, and the tone remained the same. But what was really nice, was that it made the pot useable. The guy actually emailed me last week to thank me, and told me its the first guitar he's owned where he gets use out of it with the volume down to 23.


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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:35 am 
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Howdy!

I'd recommend having a read through this thread on Treble Bleed Mods.

Enjoy!

Andy

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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:41 am 
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Andybighair wrote:
Howdy!

I'd recommend having a read through this thread on Treble Bleed Mods.

Enjoy!

Andy


At the time of that thread, I was a strong advocate of treble bleeds. Since trying the vintage wiring mod, I have changed all my guitars to vintage wiring and never looked back. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:20 am 
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bluesky636 wrote:
Do this instead of the treble bleed:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... aster.aspx

I have all my guitars wired this way and it sounds better than the treble bleed. With the treble bleed as you turn the volume down you actually lose bass and thing sound very tinny.


This only happens when you use a cap with a value that's too high for what the guitar's pickups, and pots need. If you use the right one, you wont get the thinning.
Its a pretty good mod on a Strat, a LOT of Tele players want them, along with 1 Meg bridge tone pots, so they have the brightest, most cutting sound. But I find them to be more usefull in a Les Paul, or ES 335, or something with humbuckers, especially PAF's. One of my semihollows doesnt have it, and i cant roll the volume below 6 without it getting woofy and muddy.


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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:53 am 
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so using a resistor would change an audio taper pot to react more like a linear taper pot when rolled up or down? it that what youre saying?



The one thing im known for at the shop, is my treble bleed circuits, and that's because I make them custom for each guitar. The values for what works for each guitar can swing wildly. Start with all the recommended values, and buy some resisors, from 100K on up to 330k. Each guitar will be different in what it requires. Strats tend to need lower values, ifyou use one with a value too high, it will actually ADD treble as you roll down the volume as opposed to just mitigatig its lost. It will make it sound think.
Also, with the resistors; these are used strictly to adjust the taper of the pot. Sometimes a volume kit will make a normal acting pot, one that gradually goes up and down, and make it so; maybe from 1-5 you dont hear much of any change, then from 6-10, it goes right up, or vice versa. Not all gutiars will need the resistor.

But also, some that do require the resistor work best when its wired to the cap in parallel (one leg from one resistor is wrapped around one leg of the cap, and the other leg is wrapped around the other pot). Some work better in series (you solder one leg of the cap to one leg of the resistor, and thats it, so It will be one long component).

Go buy a handful of caps and resistors, open the pickguard, hook a pair of alligator clips to the lugs of the pot, let the 2 wires hang out, and scew the pickguard down, and tune to pitch. Now you can try all the different combinatinos without soldering, then removing and having to resolder.

You see a lot of "Volume Kits" on eBay that have one for humbuckers, and one for single coils, while this is better than one size fits all, it still isnt true. What works on one strat, may not on another, even with the same pickups. The pots have something to do with it, its hard to match two pots values identical.

This is the right way to do it, and the way to get the kit that will retain the treble without adversely having a bad affect to the taper of the volume pot.
The last one i did was for a guy who had an Am Deluxe completely overhauld; Lollar pickups, new pots, caps, series/parallel, etc. He had mhy friend sit with a pile of pots, and measure them to get the 2 that were" exactly the same value" this obvioulsy didnt work. But the pots they put in, had a real bad taper. The volume only really gradally rolled off from 10-6, after which it just dropped off completely. I told him it may make the taper worse. But i put together 4 different kits; 2 different values, then each value had one wired in series, and the other in parallel. Once i put the second one in series, i hit a chord and rolled down the volume,and everyones eyse widend. IT was perfect. As i rolled down the volume on the guitar, the guy rolled down the volume on the amp, and the tone remained the same. But what was really nice, was that it made the pot useable. The guy actually emailed me last week to thank me, and told me its the first guitar he's owned where he gets use out of it with the volume down to 23.[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:17 pm 
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windwalker9649 wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Do this instead of the treble bleed:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... aster.aspx

I have all my guitars wired this way and it sounds better than the treble bleed. With the treble bleed as you turn the volume down you actually lose bass and thing sound very tinny.


This only happens when you use a cap with a value that's too high for what the guitar's pickups, and pots need. If you use the right one, you wont get the thinning.
Its a pretty good mod on a Strat, a LOT of Tele players want them, along with 1 Meg bridge tone pots, so they have the brightest, most cutting sound. But I find them to be more usefull in a Les Paul, or ES 335, or something with humbuckers, especially PAF's. One of my semihollows doesnt have it, and i cant roll the volume below 6 without it getting woofy and muddy.


The vintage wiring mod eliminates the need to "use the right" cap and in my opinion provides a more natural tone and curve through out the pots entire range. If one needs a 1 meg pot to get a bright tone, one has the wrong pickups or one's hearing is worse than mine. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:00 am 
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bluesky636 wrote:
windwalker9649 wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Do this instead of the treble bleed:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... aster.aspx

I have all my guitars wired this way and it sounds better than the treble bleed. With the treble bleed as you turn the volume down you actually lose bass and thing sound very tinny.


This only happens when you use a cap with a value that's too high for what the guitar's pickups, and pots need. If you use the right one, you wont get the thinning.
Its a pretty good mod on a Strat, a LOT of Tele players want them, along with 1 Meg bridge tone pots, so they have the brightest, most cutting sound. But I find them to be more usefull in a Les Paul, or ES 335, or something with humbuckers, especially PAF's. One of my semihollows doesnt have it, and i cant roll the volume below 6 without it getting woofy and muddy.


The vintage wiring mod eliminates the need to "use the right" cap and in my opinion provides a more natural tone and curve through out the pots entire range. If one needs a 1 meg pot to get a bright tone, one has the wrong pickups or one's hearing is worse than mine. :lol:


They dont have hearing problems, they just want the brightest bridge tone they can get. Using a 1Meg on Tele's is actually more common than you think.


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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:19 am 
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[quote="AfloatSum"]so using a resistor would change an audio taper pot to react more like a linear taper pot when rolled up or down? it that what youre saying?


To a degree; yes. Putting a cap on the pot as a treble bleed can sometimes have an adverse reaction to the taper of the pot. Essentially making it act like an; OFF, ON, LOUD. without any play in between, the resistor will smooth it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Treble Bleed on my Fender Stratocaster
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:50 pm 
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I am looking into doing the treble bleed mod. So I go to eBay, where I am totally overwhelmed by the amount of choices. I like what windwalker9649 was noting. If I could ask windwalker9649 to read my post and off his expertise: I have an American Standard (Limited Edition) Natural/Ash strat. Just ordered a preloaded H.S.H. pickup configured pickguard. So I just noted two things Ash and Humbucker. Also 500k volume pot. The H.B. pickups are Dimarzio DP155 Tone Zone @ bridge and the DP190 Air Classic @ neck. I have read about mylar being warmer. Mica being the best. I have watched YouTube videos of the comparisons. Orange drops seem to be the bench mark. I liked the tone of Luxe capacitors. I guess to sum up what combination would be best for my ash/H.S.H./500k vol pot situation. Looking for warm and creamy not harsh and shrill treble.

One more thought that occurred to me. I have a 250k pot in my Ernie Ball volume pedal. I hate how it lops off the top end. I will have to do the same with it, or I may be defeating my treble bleed guitar plans.

Thanks for you time,
abako66


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