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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:02 am 
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Hi All,
Still not sure that I'm much help clearing any mysteries.......but here's what I CAN tell you...
The hang tags shown in Peterstrattele's pictures look to be American Hang tags. The HM/Std booklet, by the part numbers listed, look to be addressing MIJ's.

Remembering that "cutting and pasting" was truly exactly that in those days, copying verbiage from one manual to the other wouldn't be unheard of and turns of phrases could certainly left in where perhaps they shouldn't have been. To be redundant- the manual appears to be aimed at MIJ models (all part numbers I see begin with 025 or 027=MIJ)

This thread is pretty long already.....and I don't even remember if i posted this, but in the HM series, there WERE some MIA's for a short time. Here's what I got...ready? ok. :)
********************************
Model Name: Strat® Ultra (U.S. H.M. Series)
Model Number: 110-2000
Series: U.S. H.M. Series
Body: Figured Maple Top and Back
Neck: Maple
Fingerboard: Ebony
No. of Frets: 24
Scale Length: 25.5” (648 mm)
Width @ Nut: 1.650" (42mm)
Hardware: Black Chrome
Machine Heads: Black Chrome Sealed Cast
Bridge: Floyd Rose® Pro Double Locking Tremolo
Pickguard: 3 Ply Black/White/Black
Pickups: 1 Blue, 1 Gold, 1 Red Dually Fender LaceTM Sensor Pickups
Pickup Switching: 5 Position Blade Switch, Mini-Toggle Coil Tap
Controls: Master Volume, Master TBX
Colors: (837) Antique Burst,
(859) Ebony Frost,
(861) Crimson Frost,
(862) Blue Frost,
(863) Silver Frost,
(878) Firestorm Red
Strings:
Unique Features: Black Headstock,
Sharkfin Position Inlays
Source: U.S.
Accessories:
U.S. MSRP: $1,449.00
INTRODUCED: 1989
DISCONTINUED:
DISCONTINUED COLORS:
WRENCH SIZES:
COMMENTS:
NOTICE: Product Prices, Features, Specifications and Availability Are Subject To Change Without Notice
*******************************************
Model Name: H.M. STRAT® (U.S. H.M. Series)
Model Number: 110-2100-(Color#) and 110-2102-(Color#)
Series: U.S. H.M. Series
Body: Alder
Neck: Maple
Fingerboard: Rosewood #110-2100 or Maple #110-2102, 17" Radius (431.8 mm)
No. of Frets: 24 Jumbo
Scale Length: 25” (635 mm)
Width @ Nut: 1.73" (44mm)
Hardware: Black Chrome Hardware
Floyd Rose Original Double Locking Tremolo
Machine Heads: Black Chrome Sealed Cast
Bridge: Floyd Rose® Licensed Locking Tremolo
Pickguard: None
Pickups: 1 DiMarzio® Humbucking Pickup,
2 Single Coil Pickups
Pickup Switching: 5 Position Blade Switch, Mini-Toggle Coil Tap
Controls: Master Volume, 2 TBX Tone Controls
Colors: (506) Black,
(573) Midnight Blue,
(574) Chrome Red,
(581) Brite White,
(595) Blackstone,
(596) Bluestone,
(597) Redstone
Strings:
Unique Features: Black Headstock
Source: U.S.
Accessories:
U.S. MSRP: $799.99
INTRODUCED: 1989
DISCONTINUED:
DISCONTINUED COLORS:
WRENCH SIZES:
COMMENTS: @1989 Black Headstock with Silkscreened Big Bold Stylized "Strat" Logo
NOTICE: Product Prices, Features, Specifications and Availability Are Subject To Change Without Notice
*****************************************************
Model Name: H.M. STRAT® (U.S. H.M. Series)
Model Number: 110-2200-(Color#)
Series: U.S. H.M. Series
Body: Alder
Neck: Maple
Fingerboard: Rosewood 17" Radius (431.8 mm)
No. of Frets: 24 Jumbo
Scale Length: 25” (635 mm)
Width @ Nut: 1.73" (44mm)
Hardware: Black Chrome Hardware
Floyd Rose Original Double Locking Tremolo
Machine Heads: Black Chrome Sealed Cast
Bridge: Floyd Rose® Licensed Locking Tremolo
Pickguard: 3-Ply Black
Pickups: 1 DiMarzio® Humbucking Pickup,
1 Silver Fender LaceTM Sensor Pickup
Pickup Switching: 3 Position Blade Switch, Mini-Toggle Coil Tap
Controls: Master Volume, 1 TBX Tone Controls
Colors: (506) Black,
(573) Midnight Blue,
(574) Chrome Red,
(581) Brite White,
(595) Blackstone,
(596) Bluestone,
(597) Redstone
Strings:
Unique Features:
Source: U.S.
Accessories:
U.S. MSRP: $799.99
INTRODUCED: 1989
DISCONTINUED:
DISCONTINUED COLORS:
WRENCH SIZES:
COMMENTS: @1989 Black Headstock with Silkscreened Big Bold Stylized "Strat" Logo
NOTICE: Product Prices, Features, Specifications and Availability Are Subject To Change Without Notice
*************************************************
Model Name: H.M. STRAT® (U.S. H.M. Series)
Model Number: 110-2300-(Color#)
Series: U.S. H.M. Series
Body: Alder
Neck: Maple
Fingerboard: Rosewood 17" Radius (431.8 mm)
No. of Frets: 24 Jumbo
Scale Length: 25” (635 mm)
Width @ Nut: 1.73" (44mm)
Hardware: Black Chrome Hardware
Floyd Rose Original Double Locking Tremolo
Machine Heads: Black Chrome Sealed Cast
Bridge: Floyd Rose® Licensed Locking Tremolo
Pickguard: None
Pickups: 2 DiMarzio® Humbucking Pickups
Pickup Switching: 3 Position Blade Switch, Mini-Toggle Coil Tap
Controls: Master Volume, 1 TBX Tone Controls
Colors: (506) Black,
(573) Midnight Blue,
(574) Chrome Red,
(581) Brite White,
(595) Blackstone,
(596) Bluestone,
(597) Redstone
Strings:
Unique Features: Black Headstock
Source: U.S.
Accessories:
U.S. MSRP: $799.99
INTRODUCED: 1989
DISCONTINUED:
DISCONTINUED COLORS:
WRENCH SIZES:
COMMENTS: @1989 Black Headstock with Silkscreened Big Bold Stylized "Strat" Logo
NOTICE: Product Prices, Features, Specifications and Availability Are Subject To Change Without Notice
******************************************
So, above is what is documented and is "official". I'm still asking around a bit as to whether there was any neck MIJ -guitar assembled in US stuff happening.

cheers,
rob

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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:59 am 
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Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
Hi All,
Still not sure that I'm much help clearing any mysteries.......but here's what I CAN tell you...
The hang tags shown in Peterstrattele's pictures look to be American Hang tags. The HM/Std booklet, by the part numbers listed, look to be addressing MIJ's.

Remembering that "cutting and pasting" was truly exactly that in those days, copying verbiage from one manual to the other wouldn't be unheard of and turns of phrases could certainly left in where perhaps they shouldn't have been. To be redundant- the manual appears to be aimed at MIJ models (all part numbers I see begin with 025 or 027=MIJ)

This thread is pretty long already.....and I don't even remember if i posted this, but in the HM series, there WERE some MIA's for a short time. Here's what I got...ready? ok. :)
********************************
So, above is what is documented and is "official". I'm still asking around a bit as to whether there was any neck MIJ -guitar assembled in US stuff happening.

cheers,
rob


Rob,

Thanks for posting this; good point about "cut and paste" being literally pasting text copy on a sheet and shooting it to make the printing plate; I should have thought of that myself (particularly since I worked at a newspaper in the late 1980s and still recall the "composing room" pasting up the pages from text they had to trim and glue onto paper/cardboard versions of each page).

I guess those USA HMs have always been a mystery to me - they were MIJ in 1988 (and clearly marked as such) but the USA versions that started the following year were identical except the "Made in Japan" was removed but no "Made in USA" was added.


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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Hi John :O)
A little followup...yeh i think there is always going to be a bit of fuzziness....but since my last post I checked with someone close who is the proud owner of the 1st HM Strat proto which was made at Fujigen. His recollection is that Fuji did make some bodies, put a coat of clear on them and shipped them to the U.S. for a very short amount time. For myself, I vaguely recall a conversation i had with who knows! about that either right before US production of them or right at the around the start.....details of said conversation...alas....I was 13 in 68 YOU figure it out. lol.

Cheers,
rob

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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:55 am 
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Dave, Rob, John, good extra info guys!

Rob, do you have any way of finding out whether a Fender Japan "twang" catalogue was ever published in 1988? Would be brilliant if you do fella. There a bunch of them here:

http://stratomaniac.com/en/twang-fender-squier-jv-mij-katalog-1982-1983/brochures-guitar-catalog-1982-1997

but not a 1988 edition. From what I can work out from the models shown in the 1987 and 1989 catalogues... the Spyder models would have been in the '88 one, if they were ever in a catalogue :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:05 am 
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Hi Nobby 1974,
Alas! The only time I saw Twangs was when I used to drop by Dan Smith's office and bug him ;O) once in awhile. Thats a pretty cool website and those were pretty cool magazines as I recall. Other than that....beats me lol (sorry!)
all the best,
rob

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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:19 am 
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Hey Rob, no worries - I know things are kinda patchy from around then, but thought I'd ask! Will email the guy who runs that website I think, he might have an idea as to why it isn't there (either he doesn't have a copy, or it doesn't exist!).

Have a good Christmas :D

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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Thanks all for the great information... this thread has come a long way! In light of some of this latest info, I wanted to tell again an anecdote from when I bought my SpyderStrat new in 1989 (kahler spyder, black, white pickguard, maple neck, gotoh machines, no "MIJ" sticker when bought new, E serial).

I scoped out the guitar one day at the dealership and was quoted a price by a salesmen. I thought about it, went back a few days later with the money, and was ringing up the guitar at the cash register, and the manager came out and got mad at the salesman when he saw the price, saying "this is American, not Japanese." I told them I came to pay the quoted price, and they sold it to me for the lower 'japanese' price, but I remember clearly the manager was furious. The store was a music store on the Berlin Turnpike in New Britain, Connecticut, but I don't remember the name.

So the sales reps weren't sure about it when they were being sold new!


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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Yes, the thread's come a long way. Thanks to all that have contributed.
I've started to look into the unmarked HM Strats of that era now. I believe that our guitars are directly related to the HMs. There is much more info about the HMs, although still the same questions - where were they made/assembled? Why no MIJ decal? What do the serial numbers mean?
Goodonya ...Mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:25 am 
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Hi there from France !

Just posting a new thread about my strat' and i found this one. I read the 9 pages, it's very interesting and glad to see we have mysterious "spyder strat'" hehe...

Here is mine :

Placid blue with a kahler spyder, gotoh tuners, etc.

Serial is E819928. I bought it in ~1998 for a piece of bread, it was a second hand, the owner could'nt stand the spyder. I love it, it rocks !

Some pictures :

Image

Image

Image

Saddles, lock nut, volume, tone and mic and rusted screws have been replaced. I've got the original pieces

There is a black plastic plate under the neck plate and someone told me that was a MIJ assembly, with those black plastic plate...

On Ebay (i can't post the link :?: :cry: ) i found exactly the same body as mine. The color and the kahler spyder form. The owner call it "80's MIJ strat body" with info : " enuine Fender Japan 1984-87 Lake Placid Blue 57 reissue recess Kahler Spyder rout strat body in very good condition "


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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:34 pm 
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G'day Monotrone, it's good to hear from you. We're hearing of more and more LP Blue examples recently. I guess it was a standard color. Yours looks good. I assume that it has no MIJ decal, correct? Welcome to the forum, enjoy the guitar and thanks for posting.
Here's the ebay body. I had a look at the sellers other stuff to see if they had the rest of the guitar bits, but no luck.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/80s-Fender-Japa ... 20ce499113

Thanks again
Goodonya ....Mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:35 pm 
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sexy :)


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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:59 pm 
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I guess I will post my pics as it sounds I might have one as well.

Image

Image

Image

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Last edited by darkogav on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:27 pm 
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You most certainly have one darkogav. Welcome to the thread. You have aftermarket pickups I see, and what looks like a push/pull volume knob for a coil splitter, but there's no mistaking all the other features.
How long have you had this fine instrument?
Goodonya ...Mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:01 am 
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boxbang wrote:
You most certainly have one darkogav. Welcome to the thread. You have aftermarket pickups I see, and what looks like a push/pull volume knob for a coil splitter, but there's no mistaking all the other features.
How long have you had this fine instrument?
Goodonya ...Mark.


Yeah, I picked it up used back around 91/92. It never had a made in Japan sticker on it or anywhere else on the body that I can tell and I have taken that thing apart lots of times. Replaced all the original single coil pickups and threw out the old ones unfortunately as I thought they were junk at the time. But I remember they were noisy as hell in bars and that's why I wound up replacing them and shielding the inside. Now its dead quiet and sounds nothing like a Strat, which I guess I don't feel so bad about anymore since its a HM Strat :-). I use the trem a lot and that trem is a real pain in the $@!, but I must say its built like military grade -- you can abuse the hell out of it and it still stays in tune.

The serial number lookup site said it was US so I went with it. Now after all these years, it turns out I have a "bastard" Strat -- some parts Japan, some parts US, may or may not have been assembled in US, we don't know how, where or why it was made. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Eighties Stratocaster Identity Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:16 am 
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At least we have plenty of examples now - proof that they're not a FrankenStrat.
Goodonya ...Mark.


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