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 Post subject: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:36 am 
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Anyone want to comment on the accuracy of build of the current '65 Princeton Reissue compared to the originals? How do the inner components differ from the original? Were the original amps hand wired, point to point? Anyone got images of the amp guts of both the reissue and original?


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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:35 am 
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Here's an original (non-reverb) 1965 Princeton:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wlIz ... G_3620.JPG

Can't find a photo of the reissue chassis, but it is PCB with modern components. Looks nothing like the original on the inside.

Schematic and chassis layout of original:

http://ampwares.com/schematics/princeto ... aa1164.pdf

Schematic and chassis layout of Reissue:

http://support.fender.com/schematics/gu ... ematic.pdf

That should answer all of your questions.

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:48 am 
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Thanks for the links.

I found a photo of the reissue guts in another post, useful for comparison:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=66380&p=792907&hilit=Princeton#p792907


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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Yup.

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Also, I've read that some people complain about the built quality of the cabinet versus the original (on Princeton / Deluxe reverb etc). How do they differ? Are the original vintage cabinets solid wood with high quality joints as opposed to plywood on the reissues?


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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:25 pm 
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The cabinets used with all original Fender amps up until the 1971 model year were constructed using solid pine planks assembled with finger-joined corner joints. The re-issues are fabricated using plywood and rabbet joints. In my 45-year association with Fender amps, I've never experienced an issue with a vintage cabinet.

Arjay

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Thanks Arjay for the info.

How were they built after 1971?


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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Post-1970 enclosures were built with multiple pine boards pieced together by butt-joining numerous sections at the edges then rabbet-joining the planks at the corners. The baffle board arrangement was re-designed concurrent with these cab changes, being glued into the case via 1/2" dadoes milled into the composite planks on the sides and bottom (the interior cleats at the front were deleted altogether). The grill cloth was attached to a removable frame at the front of the glued-in baffle board, held on with strips of velcro. This baffle board and removable grill frame method remains in use on entry-level and intermediately-priced Fender amps and the cabs themselves are plywood or MDF particle-board. These enclosures do not resonate as well nor are they as durable as the vintage construction methods and they are usually heavier than a traditional pine box with screw-in baffle board.

Arjay

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:37 pm 
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Thanks Arjay for the details. Very informative.


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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:55 am 
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Retroverbial wrote:
.
.
.
These enclosures do not resonate as well
.
.
.

Arjay

Arjay,

Can you elaborate on this point?

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:23 am 
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mhowell wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
.
.
.
These enclosures do not resonate as well
.
.
.

Arjay

Arjay,

Can you elaborate on this point?


I can give you a direct example.

I have two amps sitting side by side. One is a Weber 5F6A 59 Bassman clone that I built earlier this year. The other is a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue.

Image

The Bassman clone is built as Fender built them in 1959: Solid pine boards with finger jointed corners and the baffleboard attached with 4 screws. The BDRI, on the other hand is made of MDF with, I believe, rabbet joints. Definitely not finger jointed. The baffleboard is attached with six screws.

When played without reverb, the BDRI sounds very dead. There is little or no cabinet vibration that I would call "musical". The cabinet of the Bassman clone on the other hand, is very "alive" sounding. It sounds like a reverb is in use even when not. You can place your hand on the top of the cabinet and feel the vibrations.

Plus, the pine cabinet smells so nice. :D MDF smells like, well, it really doen't have a smell that I can detect. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:29 am 
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A friend and I compared the two. It was his factory original RI against my 1966 Princeton Reverb. Grandfather won hands down.

Cheers

David

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:12 am 
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There's a few youtube videos comparing The deluxe reverb reissue with the vintage original, but I would love to hear more side by side comparisons, clear and well recorded, as opposed to the youtube videos I found which weren't very well recorded.


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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:12 am 
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TC5A wrote:
There's a few youtube videos comparing The deluxe reverb reissue with the vintage original, but I would love to hear more side by side comparisons, clear and well recorded, as opposed to the youtube videos I found which weren't very well recorded.


Tremolo sounds differently. It's much slower and with more gravity in the original Princeton. Reverb is deeper, overall sound is warmer, more organic, more alive, transparent and detailed at the same time.

Maybe you can tune a stock PRRI to sound more like the original, but I doubt it.

Cheers

David

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 Post subject: Re: '65 Princeton Reissue vs Original
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:19 pm 
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TC5A wrote:
There's a few youtube videos comparing The deluxe reverb reissue with the vintage original, but I would love to hear more side by side comparisons, clear and well recorded, as opposed to the youtube videos I found which weren't very well recorded.


I have three Deluxe Reverbs -- one re-issue from '94 and two vintage originals from '68 and '79. They all sound great but the older amps have more overall grunt when pushed hard and the compressed OD is smoother throughout the frequency spectrum (a carefully-selected speaker and tube set can help the DRRI compensate for this). However, the re-issue's reverb does not have the same "splash" as the older amps.

HTH

Arjay

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